I was blazing down the road at 23MPH or so and watched two cars zip right through the right on red just in front of me... as the third car pulled into position and proceeded to go (no stop), I yelled loudly at him. He stopped... looked at me with wide eyes. Near miss.

Few miles down the road... on a flat doing about 22MPH... and feeling so good. Woman in van (not minivan or SUV) actually stops at a right on red... I am flying along and then notice her start to inch forward... I yell. She stops inching. I fly past and realize she cannot see a thing looking toward me into the setting sun... and her windows are rolled up. Why she stopped is beyond me... she probably just decided that she was not sure if it was clear or not... I doubt she saw me.

In both cases I would have had little room for evasive action, (left lane may have been occupied, and no room for a right turn). I was moving very quickly, and was into the thrill of speed, and not being very defensive... and I was dependent on the motorists to do exactly the right thing... scary. Time to pull back a bit and re-evaluate.

what do you yell?

Loudly!

It really doesn't matter what you yell as long as it is some kind of BARK. They cannot understand you anyway. I yelled HOLDIT to the first guy and BIKER to the lady. The HOLDIT managed to echo off the nearby building in a rather cool way... that might have helped too.

But I should not depend on stopping a car with my voice that way... that was my original point... just cutting things too close. Plus too many people have windows rolled up, and radios on...

Don't you hate when you get a near miss and realize it was all your fault? I made a right turn once without looking, figuring (stupidly) that I was keeping to the right, and therefore safe. Well, I heard a sharp skidding noise to my left as a car braked hard, avoiding hitting me by a couple of feet - I could practically have reached out and touched him! All my fault, and I felt even worse because the guy's attitudes about stupid cyclists in traffic had probably just been confirmed. That made me think about my riding habits, I can tell you. Be careful out there, folks!

It may not be wise to rely on yelling, but it is kinda fun to do .

I can relate. I did that just this morning. To make matters worse, I actually saw the car that almost hit me long before I turned right. I just assumed that if I kept right I would be safe but I was turning off a street with lots of clearence onto one with hardly any. Pretty stupid, and all my fault.

I always assume they are going to do the worse case senario and look ahead to plan possible evaision routes.
Also high speed evasion, don't track the cars movements, instead aim for where the car is..in a second won't be =that space will be empty, the foreward 'space' will be occupied by the car.
We tend to turn toward movement, good if you hunting, bad for avoid cars.

I yell, "HEY!" as loud as I can, and use the entire lane in those situations.

Some people stop in mid-turn when they finally hear or see me, so I use the entire right lane. You know there is no car behind you in the right lane, otherwise the first car wouldn't be pulling out.

It's a good idea to keep the left lane as an option, too, in case they pull out all the way. I always like to have somewhere to go.

"Stupid" and "Defensive" are relative terms. How you define them depends a lot on your confidence and experience. Some situations that used to scare me to death before, don't even raise my heartrate now.

Good word. I use the same method to avoid hitting other boats when I sail... "aim for the stern... it won't be there when you get there."

Thanks for the heads up.

In both cases I did have the whole right lane... but I was not aware of what was in the left lane right in that moment... hence "stupid." And rather than slow down and ensure that they had seen me... I yelled and hoped it would work. In the first case it did... in the second case (with the window rolled up) I got lucky.

And if they see you and stop...oh god.
But seems to be working in situations where they don't.
The scary point is the commit to if the driver will continue, as in a lane change or lane enter.
They are looking for cars...some times don't see and collide with vehicles. Assume they don't see a cyclist, be ready.
At the point of no return (they are not slowing), 'aim at the stern' ..well said.

Both my last 2 'nears' were speed factor...hmmm.
Speed kills, slow down a bit......
I'm non-VC for not changing gears and entering intersections fast.

yeah, i yell that too, usually many times.

i'm usually looking at the front tires of these people as the come up to the light, so i have some notice if they start to take off.
bk

I'm not sure I understand the diagram. Are you saying these cars were making right turns from the left lane?

Dude...

You've gotta slow it down when passing on the blind side at intersections. It ain't worth the risk otherwise. I used to be engrosses in "elapsed time" of my rides...so much that I used to fly through all intersections etc. After so many near-misses, near-fights and coming home with a nasty attitude, I made the decision to get that stuff out of my mind.

I'm no wuss, and still ride as fast as the rest of 'em. It's just that I don't screw around assuming that the driver is a good one. Too many of them yakking on the phone, for instance, to be watching out for me. Therefore I must watch out for myself.

That is good advice. I still act like speed racer and am having trouble making the mental switch. Can't seem to slow down the type A personality.

No, they were making legal "right on red" turns... although the definition of "legal" could be debated in the first case when everyone just went right through the red... you ARE supposed to stop first.

I was approaching perpendictular to them... they are in a cross road to me on my right. I have the green, and they have the red... but with "right on red," some folks just see green. All streets are 4 lane arterials. So there are two lanes going in the same direction on either side of the street.

I am in and holding the right most travel lane. The drivers turning right are actually in a right only section of their street (so technically 3 lanes, and if you add the left only, the streets are actually 6 lanes wide.)

So I am perpendicular to and approaching the corner where the "right on red" drivers will pull out and then be in the same lane that I am now in. The drivers' side of the car is toward me.

I can only see what the "right on red" cars are doing as they inch past the two stopped cars in the travel lanes... and the right on red drivers can only see me when the pull up enough to see past those same cars. (although that was not the case for the van, which was taller than the other cars... but it was still hard to see the tires and judge movement).

Now at the actual moment of me deciding that there may be a problem... I did not know if the lane to my left was occupied... I mean I knew there was no one there right next to me... but I did not know how far back the next auto was... if I had to take evasive action. And evasive action by me using a right turn might have just as easily put me right into the other cars stopped at the light, positioned just to the left of the "right on reds."

At the first intersection, in my direction of travel, there is a bike lane... but it stops right at the intersection... as does the right most lane. Across the interesection, there are only two tight lanes and parked cars... hence I hold the lane, rather than ride in the bike lane (which will not exist anyway... dumb installation of a BL. )

At the second intersection, there are no BL, or parked cars, I hold the lane as there is no other way to use it.

Does this make sense, or should I draw it?

Exactly... except this was not the blind side at all. I am approaching these guys that are on the cross street making right on red turns onto my street...

I have the green...

I had a similar situation yesterday.

Going 28-29 down a long steep city hill, a car was oncoming and was turning left, thus would cross my lane. (and kill me in the process as I was way too close to him to stop)

I was wearing my high viz yellow shirt and had taken the lane due to my speed.

I made eye contact with him. He knew I was there. And still, he tried to cut me off. I screamed "NOOOOOOOO" and he stopped. He probably laughed at the sheer terror on my face. So I ended up going through the intersection.

You see, I had made eye contact. I took the lane. I was using hand signals. Yet this guy was SOOO CLOSE to trying to cut me off, I should have been more defensive.

i yell "yyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"

I yell a very loud HEY! It seems to allow my voice to reach maximum decibles.

No, I get it now. I just hadn't gotten that you were perpendicular to them. I was imagining you getting right-hooked by someone approaching you from behind and left. Maybe some others here were similarly confused?

I'm always on the lookup for those people when I'm going through an intersection, and try to establish eye contact if possible. Fortunately, we don't seem to have a lot of right-on-red-without-stopping around here, so I've never had a problem, but I'm always vigilant for it nevertheless. I can see how it would be difficult if they are going around it without stopping, because they don't give either of you time to see each other. I don't know what else to do other than be on the lookout for it, and have an escape route if possible.

One of the Air America Radio hosts, I think it is, always ends his broadcast with "Vigilance!". Seems like a good sig for any of us.

I've been on both sides of the fence. Basically, in traffic and at intersections, bikes are hard to sort from all the other moving objects. Then there is the problem of judging speed. I hate slowing down as much as the next guy, but I need to start.

The other day I had a close call and yelled WOE to the guy who pulled out into the intersection to cut me off. I braked hard, but the guy never even turned his head. I think he was using peripheral vision and since he didn't see any car sized objects coming his way, just went out into my right of way. Completely oblivious.

The problem is worse when I am commuting because there is more traffic and I am wearing my work clothes that are harder to see. When I am fitness cycling, I wear yellow and red clothing, which seems to help drivers to see me and act appropriately.

On the other hand, last year I cut off a couple of cyclists who happened to be behind some cars that made them difficult to see. As they swerved to miss me, they started yelling obscenities. All I could do was feel bad about cutting them off. I certainly didn't do it to be the f'n a$$ they made me out to be. Sometimes we just need to try and put ourselves in drivers shoes and anticipate the unanticipated.

BTW: A great book for increasing awareness of these problems is Effective Cycling: 6th Edition by John Forester. Almost half the book is devoted to cycling safety and issues with traffic.

Hard to get eye contact across 4-6 lanes and at 22 MPH... that was why I said I was being stupid...

Around here "right on red" means "green" to far too many people.

I agree with your comment on bikes being hard to see... I wear bright jerseys now... have worn that bright screaming yellow in the past.

RE Forester... have the book (can't stand his "ego-based writing"), have taken Road 1 classes, have well over 30 years cycling experience...

But sometimes in the heat of getting a good spin... we forget to watch out for those that never watch for us. Hence "I caught myself being stupid."

That is a sad fact of commute cycling... unlike running (which I do not enjoy) in a park, where the runner can experience a runner's high and allow themselves to mind drift... cycling in traffic does not allow that. This is one reason I swim; I can let my mind clear and enjoy the moment of pure physical nirvana while exercising. Hard to do that while focusing on traffic. I have however enjoyed such moments on long bike tours well away from the hustle and bustle of the city. I have also enjoyed that feeling while climbing local mountain grades.