I just saw someone's bicycle tyre go flat...
12-18-18, 12:36 PM
#51
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And you are still entirely wrong.
That's the frightened cyclist way of dealing with left turns as in "I'm afraid of how the drivers drive so I'll let them take the right of way and be inconvenienced". It shows in your comment about the first video you posted.
Drivers won't be educated about bicycles and how bicycle are supposed to behave in traffic if we all take your approach to left turns. The group of cyclists in the video behaved in a legal and, more importantly, proper manner. The motorist was the person in the wrong.
You "method" would have resulted in 8 people trying to share a narrow section of sidewalk while the light turned. That's 8 people who would have had to slow down, turn off the road, turn back around and line up so that they could ride across on a green light. That's a lot of moving parts and a lot of confusion for anyone using the road.
It was not "riskier". The only thing that caused any "risk" was the driver who didn't know (or want) to do the turn legally. There would be significantly more risk for the 2 point left turn you advocate because of the number of bicycles involved.
The only way that "we can all get along" is if everyone makes turns properly like the cyclists in the video. Again, for what seems an infinite number of times, the motorist was in the wrong. Your premise that the cyclists were wrong and therefore "deserved" what they got is rather like what you get out of the south end of a northbound chicken.
Exactly. If the truck had been a semi with a trailer or if it had been a bus, would the sedan driver have been justified in making an illegal double turn? The answer is obviously not just no but hell no!
Again, exactly.
Exactly times infinity. Doing 2 point left turns doesn't teach motorists anything about cyclists nor how we should ride on the road. It only reinforces what how they think cyclists should use roads...i.e. as wheel pedestrians.
If I was in a big group like them with a lot of inexperienced rider, like they were. I would've stayed in the bike lane as it was green and crossed and stopped at the ****astic sidewalk/MUP. They I wouldn't push the walk indicator and waiting for the green indication. Then crossed that main street.
But, like I said we can fight all day and I can post American cyclists "taking the lane" and/or being ******** (not these guys) or taking additional risk with not net gain (these guys) all day long. I'll relax over here where we all get along with our nice cycling infrasturcture, decent driver training and streetside cafes.
Also, the move onto the MUP is essentially a RIGHT shift following the left turn; the situation would have been no different if the group had decided to continue on the road after the turn. Anyone else turning left, LEGALLY and SAFELY, would have done so BEHIND them, so it wouldn't matter if they shifted over to the MUP or stayed on the road. The only thing that made the situation unsafe was the conduct of the sedan driver.
As for staying "out of" the traffic lanes, indeed, US car drivers are poorly trained. But cyclists relegating themselves to such options only perpetuates that bad training. Car drivers will NOT learn this stuff from a book, or from a test that they'll eventually pass just by memorizing the right things. They'll ONLY learn by the PRESENCE of cyclists AS traffic, i.e. EXPERIENCE. It's like the adage about the freshly painted park bench - all the "Wet Paint" signs in the world aren't enough for some, who just have to touch it.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
12-18-18, 12:47 PM
#52
Virgo
Cyclists should ride as fast as possible on the road, obviously. Wheeled pedestrians - obviously something only for lazy Europeans. Get out of my way, wheelie peds, KOM coming through. Better tape your jersey on. I got places to go and honey to shoot. IN AMERICA.
12-18-18, 12:51 PM
#53
Banned
Thread Starter
Well, OK. @cyccommute, I guess we can't communicate effectively due the different amounts of life experience we have.
You are correct. I agree with everything you say. Have a nice evening.
You are correct. I agree with everything you say. Have a nice evening.
12-18-18, 12:53 PM
#55
Banned
Thread Starter
Do you commute in cycling-specific clothing? Just sayin'...
12-18-18, 12:56 PM
#56
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Here I thought "Keep on Moving".....
12-18-18, 01:08 PM
#60
Virgo
Sorry for all this nonsense. My daughter stayed home sick from school today so I’m working remotely from home. Came to BF looking for a little lunchtime entertainment and found none, so I entertained myself. You can have your thread back now. I don’t think it’s in better shape than when I took it. Sorry.
12-18-18, 01:25 PM
#61
Banned
Thread Starter
Sorry for all this nonsense. My daughter stayed home sick from school today so I’m working remotely from home. Came to BF looking for a little lunchtime entertainment and found none, so I entertained myself. You can have your thread back now. I don’t think it’s in better shape than when I took it. Sorry.
I hope you step in horse**** from one of those Amish carriages.
12-18-18, 01:49 PM
#62
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This thread is totally 
12-18-18, 02:57 PM
#63
Virgo
Seems that we just activated troops.
You guys against the immigrant/migrant/refugee train.
Us against a no-deal Brexit.
Must be some interesting military training at work in both cases!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYL9uzANwhE
You guys against the immigrant/migrant/refugee train.
Us against a no-deal Brexit.
Must be some interesting military training at work in both cases!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYL9uzANwhE
Youtube evidently sensed that my daily intake of Schagenfrügen was low and offered me this supplement at the end of the newscast:
12-18-18, 02:59 PM
#64
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Well, OK. @cyccommute, I guess we can't communicate effectively due the different amounts of life experience we have.
You are correct. I agree with everything you say. Have a nice evening.
You are correct. I agree with everything you say. Have a nice evening.
Let's look at this in another way. Say that the group of 8 cyclists did the 2 point left turn you advocate. How would it work. If they all lined up behind one another waiting for the green light, they would be in a line that is about 20m (65 feet) long (9 bikes at about 2m and change each). Considering that a 4 lane road is about 15 m (50 feet) wide, the line would stretch across the intersection and block anyone who wanted to turn right.
Or maybe they could all stack up next to each other on the far side of the intersection from where they made their turn. That would be smaller but would be about 5m (16 feet) wide (8 bikes at around 0.6m). That would take up all of the bike lane (about 1m) plus 4 meters. The average travel lane for highways is a bit over 3m (11ft) so they would take up all of the bike lane and more than the entire travel lane. That wouldn't inconvenience traffic at all, would it?
Or maybe they could all make a U-turn so that they would be facing counterflow to the traffic before making the left turn. In that case the 25 m (80 ft) line of bikes would have to pull into the travel lane and make 8 separate U-turns. That's not going to have much of an impact on traffic either, now is it?
Use a bit of logic. The best (and perhaps only) way for 8 people and a trailer to make the left turn is the way that they did it. Anything other method... other than doing 3 right turns...is going to be difficult to do and/or have a severe impact on traffic.
And, yes, life experience counts for something. How many group rides have you led? I've done hundreds. I would do a group exactly the way the video did. I would move out into the lane like the "leader" did before the intersection to block traffic and would follow the group through the intersection the same way. The motorist in this video had plenty of warning that the group was going to turn left. There were more then one left turn signal and he could clearly see the line of bikes in front of him. His choice was the bad one, not the cyclists.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
12-18-18, 03:04 PM
#65
Banned
Thread Starter
We can't communicate effectively because you aren't thinking logically.
Let's look at this in another way. Say that the group of 8 cyclists did the 2 point left turn you advocate. How would it work. If they all lined up behind one another waiting for the green light, they would be in a line that is about 20m (65 feet) long (9 bikes at about 2m and change each). Considering that a 4 lane road is about 15 m (50 feet) wide, the line would stretch across the intersection and block anyone who wanted to turn right.
Or maybe they could all stack up next to each other on the far side of the intersection from where they made their turn. That would be smaller but would be about 5m (16 feet) wide (8 bikes at around 0.6m). That would take up all of the bike lane (about 1m) plus 4 meters. The average travel lane for highways is a bit over 3m (11ft) so they would take up all of the bike lane and more than the entire travel lane. That wouldn't inconvenience traffic at all, would it?
Or maybe they could all make a U-turn so that they would be facing counterflow to the traffic before making the left turn. In that case the 25 m (80 ft) line of bikes would have to pull into the travel lane and make 8 separate U-turns. That's not going to have much of an impact on traffic either, now is it?
Use a bit of logic. The best (and perhaps only) way for 8 people and a trailer to make the left turn is the way that they did it. Anything other method... other than doing 3 right turns...is going to be difficult to do and/or have a severe impact on traffic.
And, yes, life experience counts for something. How many group rides have you led? I've done hundreds. I would do a group exactly the way the video did. I would move out into the lane like the "leader" did before the intersection to block traffic and would follow the group through the intersection the same way. The motorist in this video had plenty of warning that the group was going to turn left. There were more then one left turn signal and he could clearly see the line of bikes in front of him. His choice was the bad one, not the cyclists.
Let's look at this in another way. Say that the group of 8 cyclists did the 2 point left turn you advocate. How would it work. If they all lined up behind one another waiting for the green light, they would be in a line that is about 20m (65 feet) long (9 bikes at about 2m and change each). Considering that a 4 lane road is about 15 m (50 feet) wide, the line would stretch across the intersection and block anyone who wanted to turn right.
Or maybe they could all stack up next to each other on the far side of the intersection from where they made their turn. That would be smaller but would be about 5m (16 feet) wide (8 bikes at around 0.6m). That would take up all of the bike lane (about 1m) plus 4 meters. The average travel lane for highways is a bit over 3m (11ft) so they would take up all of the bike lane and more than the entire travel lane. That wouldn't inconvenience traffic at all, would it?
Or maybe they could all make a U-turn so that they would be facing counterflow to the traffic before making the left turn. In that case the 25 m (80 ft) line of bikes would have to pull into the travel lane and make 8 separate U-turns. That's not going to have much of an impact on traffic either, now is it?
Use a bit of logic. The best (and perhaps only) way for 8 people and a trailer to make the left turn is the way that they did it. Anything other method... other than doing 3 right turns...is going to be difficult to do and/or have a severe impact on traffic.
And, yes, life experience counts for something. How many group rides have you led? I've done hundreds. I would do a group exactly the way the video did. I would move out into the lane like the "leader" did before the intersection to block traffic and would follow the group through the intersection the same way. The motorist in this video had plenty of warning that the group was going to turn left. There were more then one left turn signal and he could clearly see the line of bikes in front of him. His choice was the bad one, not the cyclists.
12-18-18, 03:04 PM
#66
Virgo
Theres really no missing it sometimes. Before I had full fenders, it wasn’t uncommon to have to look real close at my water bottle before I took a drink. Wipe off the cap. Grant Petersen would say “hooboy”.
12-18-18, 03:05 PM
#67
Banned
Thread Starter
That was a relaxing newscast. All our military knowledge and tactics come from the Brits, makes sense. It’s hard to justify owning a car unless you’re driving somewhere all the time. Once you get tired of driving to all the same old places, you have find new places to drive it. By and large, the world doesn’t need cars anymore, but it’s a pastime, and one that means a lot to people here.
Youtube evidently sensed that my daily intake of Schagenfrügen was low and offered me this supplement at the end of the newscast:
12-18-18, 03:14 PM
#68
Virgo
I’ve never even been on a group ride, too slow.
But if I wanted to lead one (and thought that anybody could keep up), I’d start with a little logic in the planning phase of the ride. Like how many cyclists are going to be in the group and how is that going to affect traffic, plan a route that avoids as much traffic as possible, and with a bigger group try to avoid situations where the group might get split up by intersections/lights. Around here, I can’t imagine a group of more than about 10 cyclists being able to make it work smoothly enough to warrant taking the bikes off the smart trainer and not just riding Zwift. If I could afford a smart trainer, I’d afford an e-bike to put on it, tape the throttle full open and watch the Zwifties try to keep up. No honey shots required.
But if I wanted to lead one (and thought that anybody could keep up), I’d start with a little logic in the planning phase of the ride. Like how many cyclists are going to be in the group and how is that going to affect traffic, plan a route that avoids as much traffic as possible, and with a bigger group try to avoid situations where the group might get split up by intersections/lights. Around here, I can’t imagine a group of more than about 10 cyclists being able to make it work smoothly enough to warrant taking the bikes off the smart trainer and not just riding Zwift. If I could afford a smart trainer, I’d afford an e-bike to put on it, tape the throttle full open and watch the Zwifties try to keep up. No honey shots required.
12-18-18, 03:26 PM
#70
Virgo
If my commute had a badass theme song like that ... “Hooboy”
12-18-18, 03:55 PM
#72
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No head pats and you are still being a wanker. Perhaps you can see it a bit more clearly with pictures. Here's the pack of bicycle traveling down the road
Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr
Normal left turn like in the video
Unless a driver is a total idiot like the sedan driver in the video, this has the least impact on traffic. But let's look at your 2 stage left turn idea. First, everyone lines up single file with the head at the other side of the intersection.
Untitled 2 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
Obviously, the line of bicycles would block all 4 lanes of through traffic when the light for the north/south street turns green. If the riders all follow each other single file, motor vehicle traffic would be impeded.
What if all the bicyclists when across the intersection and lined up so that they could go on green? 8 bikes with about 2 feet per bike and some space in between results in this mess
One or two bikes making that kind of turn won't have much impact on traffic. 8 bikes would be an entirely different story. Even with one or two bikes, a left turn from the left lane is the better way. Most motorists would not be confused in the slightest by bicycles making a proper left turn. I've made thousands of these in 48 of the 50 states as well as in Europe. I've never had any problems.
Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr
Normal left turn like in the video
Unless a driver is a total idiot like the sedan driver in the video, this has the least impact on traffic. But let's look at your 2 stage left turn idea. First, everyone lines up single file with the head at the other side of the intersection.
Untitled 2 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
Obviously, the line of bicycles would block all 4 lanes of through traffic when the light for the north/south street turns green. If the riders all follow each other single file, motor vehicle traffic would be impeded.
What if all the bicyclists when across the intersection and lined up so that they could go on green? 8 bikes with about 2 feet per bike and some space in between results in this mess
One or two bikes making that kind of turn won't have much impact on traffic. 8 bikes would be an entirely different story. Even with one or two bikes, a left turn from the left lane is the better way. Most motorists would not be confused in the slightest by bicycles making a proper left turn. I've made thousands of these in 48 of the 50 states as well as in Europe. I've never had any problems.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
12-18-18, 03:57 PM
#73
Banned
Thread Starter
Cute doggy you have there. (cyccommute wags tail and gets pat of head).
12-18-18, 03:58 PM
#74
Virgo
Unfall um 1:00
since i live in the uk, this is current themesong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqayDnQ2wmw
since i live in the uk, this is current themesong:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqayDnQ2wmw
I spent 3 days in London of 7 in England. England seems like a nice place to ride a bike, like in general. Like maybe some parts of London maybe not, but in general, pretty nice. Excepting cobblestones.
12-18-18, 04:00 PM
#75
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Wait a minute! Those guys aren't slowing down for cars to their left. No pausing of cadence or grabbing for brakes or any of the things you said the guy with the flat didn't do (even though you couldn't tell one way or the other from the POV video). Or is it only those of us who drive on the right side of the road who have to slow for perpendicular traffic?
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!