Nice rack
12-22-05 | 10:38 AM
#26
Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 160
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From: Brooklyn, NY
Bikes: NYCBikes Single Speed, Cannondale M400, Raleigh Technium
I can vouch for the goodness of those CETMAracks. I've been using mine for a few months and it works great. I use it to carry kitty litter. Small furniture that we find at thrift shops in the area. And during the summer I carry my back pack on it, to work, so my back isn't soaked at the end of my ride.
The pic below... full bag carrying clothes and junk. Handling wise, with a larger, wider load, it was a bit sluggish, but it worked fine. I think it might help build some upper body strength keeping the front wheel in line.. hehe...
The pic below... full bag carrying clothes and junk. Handling wise, with a larger, wider load, it was a bit sluggish, but it worked fine. I think it might help build some upper body strength keeping the front wheel in line.. hehe...
12-22-05 | 04:20 PM
#28
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 228
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Originally Posted by lancekagar
Weight in the back is a BAD idea. Consider this.
The rear triangle is the WEAKEST part of a frame. The thin seatstays and chainstays combined with the rider's weight, road potholes, swaying back and forth, etc., add up to a lot of stress. THEN add a heavy box. It's a great way to break a frame. Ever seen a broken frame NOT fractured at the rear triangle? I doubt many.
The back wheel is also weaker than the front. A front bicycle wheel is built symmetrically, with a centered axle and spokes of equal length on both sides. But the rear wheel is dished and askew, with an axle offset to make room for gears (usually). The left side spokes are longer than the right side. Add the rider's weight, plus uneven road terrain and a couple hundred pounds of torque and it equals tremendous stress. THEN add a heavy box. An excellent way to destroy a wheel. Have you ever broken a spoke on a FRONT wheel? I doubt many.
Carrying weight on the back of a bike makes it squirrely and hard to control. Put a fifty pound box on your rear rack and try to ride down the street. It becomes almost unmanageable. Stop at a red light and it gets downright scary. It's hard to keep the bike upright and the entire frame flexes and tries to lay down. Not to mention the weight is BEHIND you, out of sight, while you're trying to look forward. It doesn't make sense. The front is where you want to carry weight, not the back. The front.
The front is where the stronger part of the frame is, away from the weak rear triangle. The front is where the stronger of the two wheels are. The front is where your hands are in control, not behind your ass, where you can't even see if it's shifting or about to fall or whatever.
The front is where freight should be carried. And as low as possible.
I've carried cargo daily as a bike messenger in Chicago, L.A., and San Francisco since 2000. I've broken countless spokes (rear wheel every time), and good frames (rear triangle every time) before building my own custom front rack and realizing I'd had it wrong for so many years. Fellow messengers and commuters started asking where they could get their own.
If you're interested, click here to get to my website. Regardless, use the above info for your consideration in buying a rack.
The rear triangle is the WEAKEST part of a frame. The thin seatstays and chainstays combined with the rider's weight, road potholes, swaying back and forth, etc., add up to a lot of stress. THEN add a heavy box. It's a great way to break a frame. Ever seen a broken frame NOT fractured at the rear triangle? I doubt many.
The back wheel is also weaker than the front. A front bicycle wheel is built symmetrically, with a centered axle and spokes of equal length on both sides. But the rear wheel is dished and askew, with an axle offset to make room for gears (usually). The left side spokes are longer than the right side. Add the rider's weight, plus uneven road terrain and a couple hundred pounds of torque and it equals tremendous stress. THEN add a heavy box. An excellent way to destroy a wheel. Have you ever broken a spoke on a FRONT wheel? I doubt many.
Carrying weight on the back of a bike makes it squirrely and hard to control. Put a fifty pound box on your rear rack and try to ride down the street. It becomes almost unmanageable. Stop at a red light and it gets downright scary. It's hard to keep the bike upright and the entire frame flexes and tries to lay down. Not to mention the weight is BEHIND you, out of sight, while you're trying to look forward. It doesn't make sense. The front is where you want to carry weight, not the back. The front.
The front is where the stronger part of the frame is, away from the weak rear triangle. The front is where the stronger of the two wheels are. The front is where your hands are in control, not behind your ass, where you can't even see if it's shifting or about to fall or whatever.
The front is where freight should be carried. And as low as possible.
I've carried cargo daily as a bike messenger in Chicago, L.A., and San Francisco since 2000. I've broken countless spokes (rear wheel every time), and good frames (rear triangle every time) before building my own custom front rack and realizing I'd had it wrong for so many years. Fellow messengers and commuters started asking where they could get their own.
If you're interested, click here to get to my website. Regardless, use the above info for your consideration in buying a rack.
I agree with you.
Lots of folks in europe load the front wheel, rather than the rear.
So what gives, why the aversion to a loaded front in the US of A?
12-22-05 | 04:55 PM
#29
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 628
Likes: 139
From: Left bank, Knoxville TN
Originally Posted by oknups
I agree with you.
Lots of folks in europe load the front wheel, rather than the rear.
So what gives, why the aversion to a loaded front in the US of A?
Lots of folks in europe load the front wheel, rather than the rear.
So what gives, why the aversion to a loaded front in the US of A?
I can carry lots of weight on the back wheel with minimal handling issues, and no significant maintenance issues (and actually, most of the frames I have seen break from use have been at the BB, but I have also seen forks break from normal use). I would not recommend as much weight for people with highly-dished and/or low-spoke-count wheels. I know there are people out there who tour with most of the weight on the front, or believe in a 50-50 front-back weight distribution, for reasons similar to those you cite. But it doesn't work for me.
12-22-05 | 06:04 PM
#31
Senior Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 12,103
Likes: 96
From: Wilmington, DE
Bikes: 2016 Hong Fu FM-079-F, 1984 Trek 660, 2005 Iron Horse Warrior Expert, 2009 Pedal Force CX1, 2016 Islabikes Beinn 20 (son's)
Originally Posted by lancekagar
The steering thing turns most people away. Things seem to be changing, though.
12-22-05 | 10:06 PM
#32
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,603
Likes: 0
From: northern California
Bikes: Bruce Gordon BLT, Cannondale parts bike, Ecodyne recumbent trike, Counterpoint Opus 2, miyata 1000
Oh do not worry about balancing the load. I ride a Counterpoint Tandem with a stoker centered over the 16" front wheel. My regular stoker is about 260 pounds (more after the holidays 
). I practiced with increasingly heavy loads until I had the steering habits set. She and other stokers need to stop pedaling at slow speeds especially during turns to preserve balance. Not a problem with cargo. It would be more of a problem with the weight so high. Go for a trailor for heavy cargo, I did.
). I practiced with increasingly heavy loads until I had the steering habits set. She and other stokers need to stop pedaling at slow speeds especially during turns to preserve balance. Not a problem with cargo. It would be more of a problem with the weight so high. Go for a trailor for heavy cargo, I did.
12-24-05 | 12:15 PM
#33
Champion Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 168
Likes: 3
From: Eugene, Oregon
Well, obviously it's harder. Having an extra thirty plus pounds anywhere on the bike makes it harder to climb, harder to descend, and harder to steer, too. But the front seems to be the best place to keep it while you're riding. One of my favorite hills to climb in SF is Taylor Street (do a Google image search for "Taylor Street SF"). I used to occasionally climb that hill with heavy boxes on board, and trust me, having it up front felt the best. It's the most stable, easiest on the bike, and I could always keep my eyes on it.
When I climb "out of the saddle", I put most of my weight forward anyway, and lean a little on the bars.
When I climb "out of the saddle", I put most of my weight forward anyway, and lean a little on the bars.
12-24-05 | 01:08 PM
#34
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 205
Likes: 1
From: Los Angeles
Bikes: Rivendell, Trek 7700, Univega Viva Sport, Bike Friday, Bike Friday Tandem, Bike Friday Triple, Trail-A-Bike, Trailer.
Consider the FreeRadical. It extends your bike and gives rack top length of around 24 inches and is rated to carry 200 pounds.
12-24-05 | 01:49 PM
#36
totally louche
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 18,023
Likes: 12
From: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
I've got a city bike with the biggest Wald baskets you can buy, front and rear, and the bike handles a lot better with the weight in front.
I think it would be fairly easy to custom build a bike rack using Wald hardware for a front basket ( I believe those S.F. front racks built by lancekaager and espoused here are using off the shelf Wald fasteners, or at least it looks a lot like the Wald hardware) and creating your own shelf for the rack. You could use plywood, bamboo, plastic, a grill grate, whatever, I guess....and you'd be styling!
IF anyone wants a set of Wald front basket hardware, PM me. I actually broke a Wald front basket, thoughourly thrashed it in about 7 years but the hardware was still good. I had to buy a second basket, so have a totally new, unused set of basket hardware just sitting in my giveaway box.
I think it would be fairly easy to custom build a bike rack using Wald hardware for a front basket ( I believe those S.F. front racks built by lancekaager and espoused here are using off the shelf Wald fasteners, or at least it looks a lot like the Wald hardware) and creating your own shelf for the rack. You could use plywood, bamboo, plastic, a grill grate, whatever, I guess....and you'd be styling!
IF anyone wants a set of Wald front basket hardware, PM me. I actually broke a Wald front basket, thoughourly thrashed it in about 7 years but the hardware was still good. I had to buy a second basket, so have a totally new, unused set of basket hardware just sitting in my giveaway box.
12-24-05 | 04:25 PM
#37
Champion Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 168
Likes: 3
From: Eugene, Oregon
Originally Posted by peripatetic
Lance, I like your front racks. You make anything a little narrower?
12-24-05 | 05:15 PM
#38
Champion Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 168
Likes: 3
From: Eugene, Oregon
Long before I came along, bike messengers in SF have been modifying thier Wald baskets into a more versitile platform. For years, they've cut away the sides and front from the basket and bent back the sharp edges to make an "L" shaped carrier. As you can imagine, the result is a lighter and more maneuverable "rack", which is also better suited for carrying oversized boxes. Problem is, they're kind of flimsy and crude...but they do the job.
I used one of those huge "Paper boy" Wald baskets (for messenger work) for a little while and I didn't like it. I found them to be top-heavy and cumbersome with or without frieght on board. And there seemed to be too much unnecessary metal there. Not to mention that it was completely useless when I'd get the occasional oversized box(s).
I'm a strong believer in making your own stuff from scratch, no matter what it is (I guess that's where good ideas come from). I think people should use thier imagination to make something original for themselves, whenever possible. It's been pretty well established here that just about anyone with a little motivation (and apposable thumbs) can make their own trailer, or rack, or bags, or whatever, without having to buy an overpriced one from a manufacturer. Sometimes the things you make yourself are superior to the mass produced stuff on the market. Heck, that's how I got started in the first place. DIY.
I used one of those huge "Paper boy" Wald baskets (for messenger work) for a little while and I didn't like it. I found them to be top-heavy and cumbersome with or without frieght on board. And there seemed to be too much unnecessary metal there. Not to mention that it was completely useless when I'd get the occasional oversized box(s).
I'm a strong believer in making your own stuff from scratch, no matter what it is (I guess that's where good ideas come from). I think people should use thier imagination to make something original for themselves, whenever possible. It's been pretty well established here that just about anyone with a little motivation (and apposable thumbs) can make their own trailer, or rack, or bags, or whatever, without having to buy an overpriced one from a manufacturer. Sometimes the things you make yourself are superior to the mass produced stuff on the market. Heck, that's how I got started in the first place. DIY.
12-24-05 | 07:47 PM
#39
totally louche
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 18,023
Likes: 12
From: A land that time forgot
Bikes: the ever shifting stable loaded with comfortable road bikes and city and winter bikes
Your CEMTA racks are built using Wald stays and handlebar brackets, though?
Those CEMTA racks looks rightous, and the price is hella affordable.
Those CEMTA racks looks rightous, and the price is hella affordable.
12-25-05 | 11:35 AM
#40
Champion Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 168
Likes: 3
From: Eugene, Oregon
Originally Posted by Bekologist
Your CEMTA racks are built using Wald stays and handlebar brackets, though?
Last edited by lancekagar; 12-25-05 at 01:36 PM.
07-29-06 | 07:06 PM
#41
Champion Member
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 168
Likes: 3
From: Eugene, Oregon
For those interested...
Within a few days, the retail price of all CETMAracks will be increasing by twenty dollars. Additionally, they'll be better coated with enamel paint.
Shipping will still be free.
Within a few days, the retail price of all CETMAracks will be increasing by twenty dollars. Additionally, they'll be better coated with enamel paint.
Shipping will still be free.
07-29-06 | 07:21 PM
#42
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,838
Likes: 398
From: Michigan
Bikes: Trek 730 (quad), 720 & 830, Bike Friday NWT, Brompton M36R & M6R, Dahon HAT060 & HT060, ...
Originally Posted by lancekagar
Within a few days, the retail price of all CETMAracks will be increasing by twenty dollars. Additionally, they'll be better coated with enamel paint.
Currently, I'm riding with an Old Mountain rack and a basket on top. The problem of the Old Mountain is that it lacks lateral stability. If the bike falls, and that happens with a frequency of once per 8-12 months, the rack folds to a side and it is damn difficult to straighten it out. How is the CETMA rack with regard to the lateral stability?
