I didn't get it from what you said. I even said that all that stuff EXCEPT that one had been put forth. I intended it to be a joke, not hostility. That's why the Mulder reference was there...you know, X-Files and all that?

And for the benefit of the very literal minded nuclear engineer in another post who got upset about the "big hole in the ground"....that was another joke! Geez, people, lighten up.

Haha car co's and oil co's ARE the government these days!

gulp my car takes premium and it is $2.89 a gallon, glad I ride my bike to work.

And by the way, I did look at that site. It's very interesting and an encouraging first step. Yes, it's expensive, but so were the hybrids at first. When they get the bugs worked out and get it in production the price will come down. I very much encourage those who can afford it to go for it.

As for riding to work, I'd love to be able to. I've briefly described the route before, so for the sake of clarity I'll do so more in detail now. As I've said, it's 14 miles one way. Not a big deal, I regularly ride that far for fitness purposes. The first 6 miles is a narrow 2 lane with no shoulder to speak of due to a widening project that will make it a 4 lane divided highway. The posted speed limit in the construction zone is 45, which means the yuppies and other morally superior persons are driving about 60. At the time would have to leave to get to work on time via bike, its usually near bumper to bumper traffic. Once you get past that, it opens up into divided 4-lane (this part was finished a couple years ago) for the next 5 miles or so. This wouldn't be too bad to ride on, there is a fairly decent shoulder, except for the 4 lane bridge over the town's water supply (read that lake) that's close to a 1/2 mile long with a posted speed limit of 60 (which of course means everyone runs 70 or more). For anyone on a bike, this would be a good place to get dead. Anyway, once past this, there's 3 more miles of narrow road with no paved shoulder, just a steep sided ditch (at some points this ditch is more than 3 feet deep and only about 6 feet wide). Once past the ditch, I'm on a road that coming from the other direction, a 4 lane necks down to this little narrow road so there's lots of oncoming traffic that seriously restricts anyone from passing the slow moving bike. Yeah, that would be me. At almost 50, especially near the end of a 14 mile ride, I"m going to be moving pretty slow. In any case, I am simply unwilling to play this 2 wheeled version of Russion Roulette. My work hours are 7:30 to 4:30 for an 8 hour day, which I rarely get to do, its usually 10 or more. That makes it 7:30 to 6:30. In the winter, this entire commute both ways would be in the dark. You guys can howl all you want to, but this hillbilly ain't doin' it. It's simply too dangerous.

And before you get started, there is no other route, or at least not one that's just as bad. In 2 counties, there are only 5 places to cross that lake I mentioned and the other bridges are farther away than this entire commute. Since it's a rural area, there are no side roads that run more or less parallel that don't increase the distance by at least a factor of 2. And yes, this is a choice that I made, and no, I'm not moving to town. We inherited the land (40 acres), and I've got about 15 more years to pay on the house we put on that piece of ground. Before any of you take off about me whining about the distance, take that and stuff it. I'm not whining, I'm just tellling you why I choose not to ride to work. It is by my choice, I know that, and I refuse to change it. The house will be paid for about the time I retire, and I'm staying put. There is nothing in the city that would make me move there. The crime and the noise and the neighbors with thier noses stuck in my business, above, below and on each side of me complaining because the tv is too loud or my friends/kids/wife/I laugh too much....been there, done that, hell with it. $5 a gallon for gas is cheap compared to that crap.

If you have read the other posts I made, I have not whined as you put it about why things such as the company you linked to were not happening. What I complained about was all the people who, no matter what alternative idea gets posted, have a dozen reasons why it won't work. I'd love to see the hydrogen thing get off the ground, I think that could be a very good solution, at least until some other technology comes along. If battery technology can make some strides, electrics will be wonderful. Sure, they have thier problems, any alternative will. What I was saying was the same as you AFCommuter, lets solve these problems instead of talking the idea to death.

Dude, you're a comedian. Take that pity parade on the road because you'll sell out the house every night.

To be fair, the route that bcspain describes sounds like no fun. I would hesitate to ride it...even on a scooter. He sounds defensive and dug-in to his position, and perhaps people have baited him a little bit on this thread.

An ultralight plane might be his best option.

As I was riding yesterday, I noticed the gas prices over here- $2.69 for the cheapest gas. I think it was like $2.89 for the most expensive. Can I tell you how much I love my bike?
New2Cycling

I'm thinking biodiesel is something Americans really need to start looking into.

It may very well be unpleasant, though I'd have to see to be sure. Many people convince themselves that they have the most unhospitable route in the world with maniacal homicidal drivers going 90 mph while playing video games and no alternative route. In reality, it's usually not that bad. Before I moved, my commute was largely a 6-lane divided highway (I admit, I did skirt the elevated portion). Really the worst part of it was climbing the on-ramp to rejoin it later on.

Anyhow, my real point is if you distill what he's said it comes down to, "This is where I live, I am in a bad location to do anything but drive, I know that's not good but I refuse to make any lifestyle changes, someone should fix my problems for me."

Excuse me if I don't have a lot of sympathy.

People *used* to live close to each other, form communities, and work together. The automobile allowed us to rush away from our have-not neighbors rather than staying and fixing things. This philosophy has proven perilous both to our environment, our health, and our spirits.

We used to live closer -- and we can do it again. We used to live without cars -- and we can do it again.

None of the alternative fuels, no matter how great, will be *cheaper* than oil based fuel. Converting nuclear-generated electricity to hydrogen to run cars -- crazy expensive. And the effluent will last 10,000 years. Everyone knows about the problem of nuclear fuel waste. What no one talks about is the cost of closing down a nuclear plant.

We don't need new fuels. We need a paradigm shift.

We need to think about building communities and work places around a maximum speed of 45 miles per hour. We need to be restricting the size of vehicles that can be owned for personal purposes. These steps are essential to allowing lighter and alternative vehicles (like electric vehicles) to safely compete on the freeways and to encourage mass transit. With a national speed limit of 45 (As it was during our last real, DECLARED war) you could bike anywhere, and you wouldn't take much longer.

We WILL run out of oil. Killing people to take their oil is morally reprehensible ... and won't buy us much time. Aternative fuels will be more expensive and nearly as bad for the environment as the real thing.

Meanwhile, as long as people feel free to buy Hummers:

G A S I S T O O C H E A P !
========================

... And its reached $3 in my county.

As a sustainable source of fuel for everyone? Not feasible...where we gonna get that much corn?

Pass.

I wonder if corn could be grown hydroponically?


Oh yeah, and as for fuel for cars... A solar panel of just a few square meters should generate enough power that it could fully charge an electric vehicle's batteries for the day... perhaps several days. As battery energy density increases, as does solar panel efficiency, there probably won't be any need for hydrogen at all. Hydrogen is an expensive step that could be skipped completely, at least in commuter cars. Trucks may still run on hydrogen though.

Are you talking about electric vehicles that are similarly powerful to cars most people are driving today? If so, what are you basing this on? What are your sources?

The fastest solar powered vehicles that currently exist max out somewhere above 40mph and look like this:


I understand that charging when not in use can provide more power, but these are pretty extreme designs to optimize speed. A more normal looking car would be a lot heavier and slower. I don't see it happening, at least not without people getting used to having much less power available.

Yes, unless there are some significant efficiency advances in solar, the best we can accomplish is solar, along with something else, like electric, or for the time being, perhaps solar with electric and gas. Or, you can install solar panels on your house, generate power that way, and charge your electric car as well...plus, next year, you get that tax break.

I DID NOT ask you or anyone else to fix anything for me. Your sympathy is neither required, nor desired. I got here to offer a little encouragement to folks who might have the knowledge and skills to come up with something, and get attacked like this? There is something you can do for me...go wash your face, and kiss my a$$.

Not in as many words.

What you did say is that you had no desire or intention to change your lifestyle but that we should all get cracking on a completely new energy infrastructure that will allow us (you) to continue to live a ridiculously excessive lifestyle lest you have to put yourself out a bit.

Sure, sure, I'll get right on that.

You know what, while we're reinventing the technology of personal mobility in the United States, I have a few modest proposals that utilize technology that's already been invented. Let me know if you're interested.

I see all this hypothesising about how the world will be once the oil is gone if we don't find a replacement fuel source (which we probably won't). The answer is quite obvious and we've been there before - we will live like we did before we used oil. We managed fine without it for a very long time and we'll manage fine without it again, I just don't see what the big deal is. So the oil runs out, oh well, the party's over, back to the horse drawn plow for us. Big deal.

OK, it won't be an easy transition, in fact a lot of folks will die a miserable death, but hey, that's nature's way, it's called natural selection. The ones fit to carry on the species will, and a few generations later once the planet starts healing we'll be better off allround as a species. Basically, it's all good news.

That's exactly what I meant. A few square meters of solar panels on your house's roof could feed a battery bank that is constantly being charged up. The car would be recharged from the battery bank. This would allow the car to maintain an "ordinary" shape, because the batteris could be tucked away in the undercarriage or trunk.

And what's this about solar cars only going 40mph? I believe THIS ONE from my own city's university has a top speed of 130km/h... 40mph? Gimme a break.

Don't look so far ahead you trip on a stone right in front of you.

$3.55 US a gallon here... ask me if I'm riding much

$2.85 for 85 octane on the Central Coast of California. On a 30 mile each way commute, I'm saving $10 a day not driving my truck.

Not to be a conspiracy-theorist (for I'm not ...rather, I'm just playing devil's advocate), but who's to say that the large petroleum companies don't already have alternative energy sources and solutions hiding in a vault somewhere, ready to be released on the world when their cash cow runs out ?

Because that sort of thing requires such a huge base of basic research, proof of concept, and commercialization that it's hard to imagine such a huge conspiracy could remain quiet. On top of that, companies want some assurance that when all is said and done, they'll be able to sell the stuff. That means they need to get some assurances from those who would control the distribution system that it will actually happen.

If big oil really has all these solutions hidden away, how come independent researchers don't at least have an inkling of the same technologies?

The areas it hits the worst will be the ones where people are crammed in together, and can get around without motor vehicles. We saw a very small example in the summer of '67.