Brand and Model suggestions
 

Hi,

I've been looking for a commuter bike and almost settled on the Priority Continuum Onyx. However, the bike struggles on hills and the twist shifting has been putting stress on my wrist and I have a feeling that the pain will only get worse. I've been approved to return the bike which I might do.

So, I'm back to square one and looking for a solid commuter bike. Ideally I'd like it to do well on hills and not be super heavy. A more upright position, but the shifters can't be twist. I'm coming off a 90s Specialized Hard Rock, which I really loved.

Does anyone have a starting point for a brand or model that I can look into?

Thanks in advance.

In my opinion, the 1990s mountain bikes were some of the best all-around bikes ever built. I commute with one every day. The kids also all have similar bikes. Parts and service are still pretty dirt cheap and easy to get - you can even grab parts at any toy store if needed. Also easy to mount accessories like racks and studded tires. Many parts can even be modernized as you go - new wheels, better tires, sealed cartridge bottom bracket, etc. I think the only original parts left on my bike are the front derailleur and the handlebar crossbar.

If you loved the Hard Rock, there isn't a reason you can't or shouldn't stay in that space.

Tons and tons and tons of options. What are you looking for? Was the Priority too heavy or was the gearing wrong? Do you have hand issues that we should know about? Any other needs?

I would go for a Sirrus X 5.0 or 6.0 and some Velo Orange Crazy Bars. That would get me lightweight, no-gripshift and more upright but that is just a shot in the dark to some degree.

I don't know if Priority does anything with Alfine but you can get that as Di2 or trigger shifters, also plenty of options for alternative shifters for Rohloff as well and I know people have done some alternate shifters for Pinion that are trigger shifters. A belt drive is awesome for commuting.

Thanks for the replies. I don't really have any hand issues, but noticing some pain in my wrist and pretty sure it's related to the constant shifting of the Enviolo gear. I like the carbon fiber belt because it would be pretty low maintenance. However it's expensive and yes, it is a bit heavy. I find myself struggling on hills a bit.

I was putting a lot of money into the mid 90s Hard Rock Specialized so I decided to look for a new bike. Should I continue to put money into it? It still has original shifters and rims I believe.

Or do you think something like a Sirrus X5/6 is a better option? Velo Orange Crazy bars make it more upright?

A belt drive is in itself lighter but adding in the rear hub will generally be heavier than a derailleur and chain set up however building lighter wheels and using a lighter frame will help. It is actually pretty cheap though, initially a bit more expensive but having a belt that lasts 20,000 KMs to even 40,000 KMs is quite a bit cheaper than buying 4-12 chains and cassettes, doing all the chain maintenance, adjusting derailleurs...

The VO Crazy Bars have a rise to them and have the perfect sweepback to get you in a more comfortable position that will in the end be more upright. The Sirrus X is a neat option but it may not be for you but it is certainly light and has some great parts on it.

If you really love the Hardrock and it is in decent shape and wasn't the bottom end model, putting money towards it isn't necessarily bad but you could also build a more modern version of that bike. Loads of options. Me I would find a nice steel frame with modern standards put on some CUES 11 speed and those Crazy Bars and some nice wide tires and you could have a very solid commuter.

Thanks. This is where I might need some help. I'm looking for something solid and fairly up to date but not the cost of the x5/6. I like the idea of something custom, but don't think I have the technical skills and time to put it together. I kept riding the Hard Rock and bringing it in for a tune up roughly every year where the shop would change brakes, but on a new chain when needed, etc...

So, now I feel like I'm back at square one after it seems the Priority Onyx won't really work out.

I had a Marin Presidio 2 with 7-speed internal hub. The claimed advantage is lower maintenance. However, I disagree. Because it is next to impossible to do self maintenance, unless you can take apart the hub and put it back together. And it requires special knowledge to service it. Most LBS won't even touch it. Though the Shimano 7-speed hub is more common and not as unique as the Priority Onyx drive train.

Plus, the 7-speed does not have enough gear ratio for steep hills. Not an issue for commute, but a blocker to use the bike for weekend recreational rides.

I find that standard derailleur/cassette is better for me. Easy and cheaper to maintain in the long run. Yes, derailleur needs adjustment periodically, but something anyone can learn to do themselves.

So now I have used Trek hybrid. Nothing fancy. Cheap to buy and easy to maintain.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4463d19ce2.jpg

I'm sorry to hear you are not getting along with it in the fine details because from the top level it looks like a pretty good bike. It's a pity that it's a pull-pull shifter and you can't just use any old thumbie.

It's maybe possible to get lower gearing out of your belt drive with a pulley swap. You'd probably want a shop to help with this to make sure all the parts match interfaces. It looks like the front pulley is as small as it can go so you'd need a bigger rear pulley which would also need a longer belt.

Curious what your experience is with Cues. At the last shop I worked at,it was so universally reviled by the mechanics,that the owner started carrying Marins to get entry level bikes that didn't have it. Personally,I will never put it on a bike I own,and would never recommend it to anyone.

Biggest issue with that bike is the belt drive makes changing the gearing complicated due to the belt not being able to be shortened or lengthened. Just curious,have you had a shop look at you on the bike? If the bars/controls/general fit are off,it could put your wrists at a weird angle that could cause problems. While the cable routing in the Enviolo shifters is a serious PITA,I've found the action to be pretty smooth and not require much effort. If you're having an issue shifting it,your wrists might be at a bad angle or the cables might be mis-routed causing things to bind up.

As for your old bike,when people ask about fixing up old bikes,I ask how much they like it and how well it fits them. If you like the old bike,and it fits well,it might be a good idea to just get it fixed up,providing you don't have to do major surgery. If the BB and headset bearings are shot,the rims are worn or spoke tension a mess,and all the cables need replacing,then it might be time to retire it. If it just needs a tuneup,and maybe some commuting bits like rack and fenders,then you might want to just keep rolling it.

It's really a funny thing about bicycles in particular as a consumer good. They are so maintainable, more than a car, more than any appliance, definitely more than any electronic. It's absolutely possible to fix every single thing about any average bike-shop bike from the last fifty years, as good or better than brand new, with parts you can just buy right now. But our overlords moving all manufacturing of consumer goods to China made it so that buying anything has a depressed price compared to fixing it, and doing that fixup is only for insane hobbyists.

One of things I like about Bromptons is you can put the latest parts on an old bike. I used to hate telling people that I was going to put Acera parts on their 9spd DuraAce bike because they haven't made high end 9spd in 20yrs. And you can't even put the latest 12/13spd bits on an older bike because it's all disc and thruaxle now.

Well, obviously there are limits. But I don't think adequate 9 speed parts are going to disappear soon.

Commuting bikes are always a compromise.

I have a Priority Apollo 11 gravel bike I was going to use as a commuter. In addition to being a bit heavier, the IGH is also 5-10% less efficient than derailleur. I wound up going down a pulley size on front to get lower gearing to really smash the hills, and that helped. I remind myself that this is not a bike I bought for performance, but for low maintenance and reasonable aerodynamic efficiency.

When it comes down to it though, I use an eBike the most for commuting. It helps with the hills and keeps me just out of The Sweat Zone on warmer days. I don't worry as much about getting a workout on it, because I'm in the bike club and get at least 80 miles a week on a muggle bike in spring/summer/fall. My main commuter is an Aventon Level.2, but if I were to buy again, I'd get a belt drive/Enviolo CVT eBike. (ex. Priority Current) It is REALLY nice not needing to do chain maintenance.

One other thing about the Apollo is that the IGH took some time to break in. It felt really draggy at first. Once the gears broke in, it got a lot better. I'm not worried about maintenance; it is just an oil change in the hub every 2,000 km. (Shimano Alfine 11) Maybe the Enviolo will be similar?

Last thing is that they recommend making the belt very tight. Tight enough that it affects how easily the rear wheel rotates. I run it a lot looser than they recommend, so that the wheel rotates freely, but still have good traction between the belt & pulleys. (there are a lot of teeth engaged, so it doesn't need to be that tight) It hasn't slipped yet, even during standing up and mashing now and then.

I guess The Thing to Do is to decide whether riding efficiency or low maintenance is more important to you. On one end of the spectrum, you have a road bicycle; on the other you have what you have or a commuter eBike.

Something with drop bars set higher might be good. High enough that you're comfortable on the hoods, but can get a bit aero down in the drops without killing your neck. Would be a lot more efficient than a flat bar. Remember too that being upright, with more weight over the butt, carries power penalty than something more forward with weight over the legs.

Seriously? That's weird. Why make the belt tight? If it is to save the life of the belt, F...skip that!

Have you tried an Enviolo? They replaced all the 3-speed hubs (or almost?) on the Citi Bike fleet here in NYC with Enviolo. I like the micro-adjustability, but I think I notice the added inefficiency. And they're extra heavy. I believe the company chose this hub because of the reliability and durability. These bikes are used hard and abused. Apparently, they're very tough hubs. Here, they use chains, not belts. The chains are sometimes rusty and stiff, but they may prefer them because belts might be more vulnerable to vandalism. Or maybe it's because chains (and their sprockets) are so much cheaper.

Belts normally run tight. The tension needed is about the weight of the bicycle. Gates has an app that uses your smart phone's microphone to measure the frequency when you pluck it.

Some of the CaBi's down here in DC have them as well. Def more drag than the Nexus 3's. What are they doing for front brakes there? Here the Nexus bikes have Roller brakes on the front,but the Enviolo's have Sturmey drums,which function much better.

All of the bikes in NYC have Sturmey Archer front drum brake hubs. Yeah, they rock. I bet they're also very low maintenance.

I have commuted on a lot of bikes, from junkers that lived on a square in Copenhagen year read to nice MTBs.

It doesn't really matter as long as you're comfortable as the human link is usually the downfall in the equation.

If I moved to a new country again and had to buy a new bike, I'd probably go with a used e-bike with a front cargo hold that reminded somewhat narrow. I've had a OG Christiania bike (3-speed) and it was great, but I little wide for the UK.

I guess the theory is to keep all the teeth in snug contact with all the cogs on the pulleys.

I haven't had the pleasure of using an Enviolo CVT hub, though I'd like to. I just bought a membership at the Art Institute in Chicago, so I'll keep an eye out next time I go down there.
It sounds like not only are the gearhubs heavy, but also the front brake hub. Not to mention chain guard, wheels, tires and all the anti-vandalism stuff. As you say, it adds up to a nearly 50 lb. bike that lacks a motor.

That was my point though: that level of tension is NOT needed, but someone at Gates thinks it is. Maybe for a strong, heavy rider, really standing up and mashing to climb a steep hill, it would skip cogs and that caused them to recommend the high tension?
I tried the app and its frequency measurement of when the belt is plucked. It's pretty far from precise. They would have been better off telling us about the proper deflection amount when the belt is pressed between pulleys.
If you try one some time and you're able to resist loosening it up when you see the draggy effect of that tautness, I'll be surprised. ;)

Yes, it is definitely about skipping. It skips when it's too loose, not because the upper run is being pulled so hard - on the contrary, it's well seated. The lower run comes out of tension and that's where the skip happens. I had a belt-drive bike from Priority that started with a different non-Gates belt, with standard industrial teeth, and they sent me a Carbon Drive with the center ridge to test later on. The first one would definitely skip under hard effort, even at full tension, even though it had a snub pulley. The Gates version doesn't have a snub pulley and relies entirely on the tension, and on just being better quality. The center ridge has nothing to do with it, that is a dirt shedding feature compared to pulleys with sidewalls.

Gates know what they are doing. They make drive belts for all industries and some other things too like hoses. Not tires for whatever reason. I guarantee you don't know better than them. Their tension specs are higher for mid-drive and even higher for gearboxes because those put more and more tension on the belt.

I also found the app irritating to use. The value I got when I turned the adjusters would change entirely when I cinched down the axle. Fortunately the allowable range is broad

I weighed a Nexus 3 CaBi that was missing its kickstand once at the old shop. It was an ounce shy of 50lbs.

I asked Kinetics about the belt being bent over backwards in the tensioner of one of their Brompton conversions on FB. They said Gates had changed their minds about it. I posted a screenshot of Gates' site saying not to do that. They never answered.

Might vary by belt style, or indeed they did change their mind, because there are a raft of high end downhill mountain bikes this year with belt drives that have an idler, a reverse idler, and a snubber. They all have a gearbox. Gearboxes and idlers and dh bikes go together like peanut butter and banana and white bread, the belt is rarer

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0cb6493f5f.png

That doesn't look too bad. Can't find a good pic,but you can kinda see it here:


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c5468cf7b7.jpg

That's got a sharp bend in both directions. The tensioner was designed for chains.