Bike Forums - Good tires for rainy days on slick pavement

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)

- Commuting (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/)

- - Good tires for rainy days on slick pavement (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/148623-good-tires-rainy-days-slick-pavement.html)

I put some kevlar belted Specialized Armadillo Nimbus EX tires (26X1.50) on my Fuji MTB that I commute with in LA.
They're great for avoiding flats, but they're really really low traction in the rain.
I've fallen a couple times lately - not such a good thing in LA traffic.
Anyone have a suggestion for a good rain tire - hopefully flat resistant as well?

Thanks,
Dennis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure_handed

Continental Top Touring 2000, Schwalbe Marathons.

I haven't noticed any problems in the rain with the same exact tires on my MTB/hybrid commuter. Can you describe how you've fallen? Painted lines, metal grates, railroad tracks, leaves, oil spots, etc. are slippery regardless of what tires you are using. I've spun my rear tire getting moving from a stop (and almost fallen) but that's only because I was in the center of the lane where the cars drip oil.

Conti Town and Country tires are good wet weather 26ers. Pretty good for Seattle weather anyways.

Anything with a light thread.
Large knobs slip too. But a light thread on the tires help you grip little features on the ground. I have the same tires and find they're pretty good. I run mine at like 65-70psi. You might want to let 10-15 psi out on rainy days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slvoid

But a light thread on the tires help you grip little features on the ground.

How do you know this? Jobst Brandt writes that no tread is best for road cycling, wet and dry.
http://yarchive.net/bike/slicks.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by joejack951

This has been my experience with the same tires. The only time I've lost traction in the wet was when I had to dodge a squirrel in a crosswalk. My rear tire slid out, but it was an easy recovery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slvoid

Anything with a light thread.
Large knobs slip too. But a light thread on the tires help you grip little features on the ground.

Nope sorry. The tread is there mainly as a cosmetic feature.

Quote:

From Jobst Brandt:
Tread patterns have no effect on surfaces in which they leave no impression. That is to say, if the road is harder than the tire, a tread pattern does not improve traction. That smooth tires have better dry traction is probably accepted by most bicyclists, but wet pavement still appears to raise doubts even though motorcycles have shown that tread patterns do not improve wet traction.

A window-cleaning squeegee demonstrates this effect well. Even with a new sharp edge, it glides effortlessly over wet glass leaving a microscopic layer of water behind to evaporate. On a second swipe, the squeegee sticks to the dry glass. This example should make apparent that the lubricating water layer cannot be removed by tire tread, and that only the micro-grit of the road surface can penetrate this layer to give traction. For this reason, metal plates, paint stripes, and railway tracks are incorrigibly slippery.

Besides having better wet and dry traction, smooth tread also has lower rolling resistance, because its rubber does not deform into tread voids. Rubber being essentially incompressible, deforms like a water filled balloon, changing shape, but not volume. For a tire with tread voids, its rubber bulges under load and rebounds with less force than the deforming force. This internal damping causes the energy losses of rolling resistance. In contrast the smooth tread transmits the load to the loss-free pneumatic compliance of the tire.

In curves, tread features squirm to allow walking and ultimately, early breakout. This is best demonstrated on knobby MTB tires, some of which track so poorly that they are difficult to ride no-hands.

Wait there's more:

Quote:

From Sheldon Brown:
Tread for on-road use

Bicycle tires for on-road use have no need of any sort of tread features; in fact, the best road tires are perfectly smooth, with no tread at all!

Unfortunately, most people assume that a smooth tire will be slippery, so this type of tire is difficult to sell to unsophisticated cyclists. Most tire makers cater to this by putting a very fine pattern on their tires, mainly for cosmetic and marketing reasons. If you examine a section of asphault or concrete, you'll see that the texture of the road itself is much "knobbier" than the tread features of a good quality road tire. Since the tire is flexible, even a slick tire deforms as it comes into contact with the pavement, acquiring the shape of the pavement texture, only while incontact with the road.

People ask, "But don't slick tires get slippery on wet roads, or worse yet, wet metal features such as expansion joints, paint stripes, or railroad tracks?" The answer is, yes, they do. So do tires with tread. All tires are slippery in these conditions. Tread features make no improvement in this.
http://img494.imageshack.us/img494/4...ontires8qb.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by chipcom

Continental Top Touring 2000, Schwalbe Marathons.

I'll second the Schwalbe's for rain.

Last year I used Conti Top Touring (not the 2000) with the inverse tread like the Town and Country. They were very good on ice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jur

How do you know this? Jobst Brandt writes that no tread is best for road cycling, wet and dry.
http://yarchive.net/bike/slicks.html

He's assuming that the ground's perfectly smooth and flat when in reality, especially in the city, there are plenty of stuff to slip on and grab onto. I did read the 20+ pages there but somewhere he mentions the bike tire compresses so that a light thread essentially becomes a slick anyway? It doesn't, you can see when you ride a bike over a metal plate the parks left by the thread.
Personally I've slipped on the edges of manholes or those stupid metal plates they sink halfway into the ground for construction and have had the edge of a thread grip onto the sharp edge of the interface between it and the pavement. How do I know? Cause afterwards I go home and I can see a patch of the thread where it's worn away.
Just try it, on a real patch of dirty road, which is usually full of grit, dust, sand, etc, spin the wheel and then let it down on the ground, see which one slips the most before stopping. Many people also assume that the threads are to prevent hydroplaning, which isn't always true, it's always nice to have something to lock onto features on the road, once again, which isn't completely smooth and flat.

I have a road tire 700x23 with a really fine pitch thread on it, which gets less traction than a pure slick then. I'm assuming if this guy's right then the smoother my rims are and the smoother my brake pads are, the better they work?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sure_handed

Have you considered the possibility that you're falling because you're hitting metal?

I think tread does improve traction in the less than perfect world of urban cycling.

Like, around corners with gravel. There's a LOT of coarse blacktop out there. Or, when you cut a lawn around campus or wherever for some non VC reason. Not big honking knobbies though. But fat tires are more grippy for sure.

Conti Town and Country or TT have inverse tread and a lot of solid angular rubber extending to the sidewalls for cornering grip.

And, hey, even if it's partially psychological, I'll take the advantages of a little tread on a big tire. Continental Town and Country 26x2.1s are some of the best urban 26" tires around. They are on a lot of police bikes, if you haven't seen them in your LBS.

A little bit of tread will do practically nothing with gravel, sand or other loose surfaces.

Notice how those Tour de France riders still have slicks on, even when it's raining on a downhill descent with switchbacks. That's because they have the best traction.

The only thing that will improve your traction in the rain is to increase the width of the tire. It'll slow you down a bit on the straight but will increase your rolling surface area on cornering.

Nothing short of caterpiller tracks will save you from a skid on a well polished manhole cover. Best thing to is contact your local authority and ask them nicely to surface it.

There are a pair of Marathon Slicks on their way to me from Schawlbe USA, and we have rain forecast for later in the week so I'll be testing this tread (not thread) theory personally. I believe tread patterns do nothing on paved roads though.

I've been using Panaracer T-Serve tires for two years. The compound is soft and they were about 1lb lighter than some of the other tires I looked at. My LBS recommended these for wet commuting conditions. So far, no complaints. http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...6&category=179

A little bit of tread does nothing on loose surfaces like gravel? Huh? Has this been thought through fully, the seldom?

I think those tour de france riders have slicks on because they're racing!

Yep, but if they were loosing traction because they didn't have tread then I guarantee that they would change to treaded tires. Traction is critical when it comes to speed.

The softness of the rubber is a major factor in tire grip.

Quote:

A little bit of tread does nothing on loose surfaces like gravel? Huh? Has this been thought through fully, the seldom?

Indeed it has. A medium to large amount of tread might do something but small amounts will simply fail to cut through any loose surfaces to the hard surface. If anything they might catch or hold the loose covering and grip that which in turn would have less gripping power than rubber.

Slipslidy fun ahoy.

I use Bontrager Road Warriors (26x1.5 slicks) and find they have substantially more traction (wet or dry) than any other tire I've used. Just my experience...

Comparitively speaking, a Conti town and country, TT or a shwalbe marathon has a light tread compared to a typical 26" mtb tire.

If someone can find me flawless blacktop, I'd ride slicks, but a tire with tread will grab any rugosity and add traction. Bolts on steel plates, or drain grates, for instance. Also, every expansion joint you ride over. A little bit of tread just makes plain good sense, esp in the imperfect world of urban cycling.

Both arguments seem to have valid points however I think the only real difference is tire pressure and width. Even on a dirt road I notice no difference between light treaded Marathons and Marathon Slicks. But 85 psi 35mm tires definately have better traction than 120 psi 25mm. You best bet for wet weather traction is probably something like a Schwalbe Big Apple (50 mm or 60mm) run under 60 psi. Probably wouldn't be terribly slow either but you will need a MTB or 29er to be able to fit the tires with fenders (or even fit the tires period).
In wet conditions TDF racers still use slicks but will run wider tires at lower pressures than they use on dry days.
Craig

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bekologist

The problem with tread is that it squirms. When it squirms, it becomes a lot more likely that it will lose traction especially in a turn. Those tires with tread on the side are NOT what you want for wet weather street cornering. You want as much rubber against the road as possible (within reason of course) and you want a solid cornering feel. Tread squirming reduces this solid feel and it reduces the amount of rubber touching the pavement (given the same size treaded and non-treaded tires). Because bike tires are skinny enough to not have issues with hydroplaning, a slick tire is your best bet in the rain. Tread helps in the mud becuase the knobs protrude into the mud and grab more mud than a slick would.

I run Town & Country (Conti's) also...

They do very well in Wet or Rainy situations for me.
But like in any Wet weather situation, you have to slow down in the turns/curves.
It's just common sense! The traction is there.
Wet leaves is what freaks me out! Broke my leg on them dayum things 7 years ago!

I know knobbie squirm, Town and countrys don't wiggle in the corners.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jharte

I've also had good luck with Panaracer T-Serv tires. They seem to do quite well in less-than-optimal road conditions.