Traffic nightmares beginning to cost cities
10-25-02, 10:59 PM
#51
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Originally posted by SteveE
Unfortunately, the light rail is slower than a car.
Unfortunately, the light rail is slower than a car.
10-26-02, 09:29 AM
#52
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Originally posted by Dahon.Steve
...I live in NJ and commute into Manhattan on rain days using the light rail that cost NJ Transit over 1.5 Billion dollars to make. Not only is the system successful but the train is packed to capicity every day during rush hour. It is standing room only after the second stop....
Your kidding me right about the train situation never happening in any American jurisdiction. It's happening right here in NJ. The lightrail in NJ will eventually get extended over 45 miles along the coastline at the cost of BILLIONS! in the next few years...
The state of NJ recently purchased a new express self propelling commuter train the cost of which is in the tens of millions.... Trains do work folks.
...I live in NJ and commute into Manhattan on rain days using the light rail that cost NJ Transit over 1.5 Billion dollars to make. Not only is the system successful but the train is packed to capicity every day during rush hour. It is standing room only after the second stop....
Your kidding me right about the train situation never happening in any American jurisdiction. It's happening right here in NJ. The lightrail in NJ will eventually get extended over 45 miles along the coastline at the cost of BILLIONS! in the next few years...
The state of NJ recently purchased a new express self propelling commuter train the cost of which is in the tens of millions.... Trains do work folks.
Source: https://www.tstc.org/bulletin/20010820/mtr33002.htm
10-26-02, 10:38 AM
#53
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1. "The underlined statements represent the soft and hard costs of transit, and why many believe that trains will never be a real alternative to autos."
Your right about the hard costs of creating a transit system using trains. The costs of developing a massive transit system like Manhattan's is a multi-billion dollar expense very few if ANY city can afford to do in the 21st century. New York City began constructing it's subways at the turn of the century when costs were reasonable. As a matter of fact, the city has tried to build another subway line in the past 50 years and was NOT successful due to cost overruns. I'm sorry to say but it's too late for most cities in america to adopt this efficient means of transportation.
2. "In NJ, according to the 2000 Census, a whole 11% of commuters used transit, with only 4.2% using rail. I agree that NJ is a model for trains with its densely packed population and ample routes, yet 4.2% is hardly an indication that "trains do work"."
Not true. We lost the Path trains into downtown Manhattan which carried tens of thousands of commuters after the destruction of the World Trade Center resulting in expanded ferry service by New York Water Way. The numbers were actually higher than this before the attack.
Still. I see your point about the %4.2
New Jersey destroyed all of it's trolley lines about 40 years ago.e and adoped the bus as the primary means of public transport. It was mistake. The good news is we are returning back to the trolley again and it's name is called the Light Rail.
As I speak, there are huge car parks being constructed around the Light Rail for future expansion with the intention of pulling autos off the highways and commuters into rail transport. IT"S WORKING! The system is in its infancy as it was started 3 years ago but the rusults are incredible as the system will one day extend far into northern NJ. I wish you could ride the light rail with me in the morning and see all the car parks full to capicity. All of these cars were once headed into Manhattan via the Lincoln and Holland tunnel. We are slowly turning around.
Furthermore, NJ transit is building more commuter lines (trains) while others that were abondoned 30 yeas ago are being developed. It seems like in order to move ahead, we had to take two steps back. We still have a long way to go but I"m glad the state is spending the money to build more rails instead of building more freeways.
Unfortunately the rail system does not cover the entire state and those who are not heading into Manhattan have no choice but to drive. It's a work in progress that will take many years if ever to complete but the alternative would be disastrous in the long run.
I belive that cities without rail transport in the future will suffer tremendously as auto traffic increases each year but bridge and road construction lag far behind. It costs money to build a train system but construction of a freeway is about the same if not more.
New York City spent billions building Gowanus expressway and lets not forget the West Side Highway! All of these non-toll freeways cost millions to maintain each year.
The NJ Lightrail was constructed using bonds and public funds and it's paying itself off. I wish we could say that about our public highways.
Your right about the hard costs of creating a transit system using trains. The costs of developing a massive transit system like Manhattan's is a multi-billion dollar expense very few if ANY city can afford to do in the 21st century. New York City began constructing it's subways at the turn of the century when costs were reasonable. As a matter of fact, the city has tried to build another subway line in the past 50 years and was NOT successful due to cost overruns. I'm sorry to say but it's too late for most cities in america to adopt this efficient means of transportation.
2. "In NJ, according to the 2000 Census, a whole 11% of commuters used transit, with only 4.2% using rail. I agree that NJ is a model for trains with its densely packed population and ample routes, yet 4.2% is hardly an indication that "trains do work"."
Not true. We lost the Path trains into downtown Manhattan which carried tens of thousands of commuters after the destruction of the World Trade Center resulting in expanded ferry service by New York Water Way. The numbers were actually higher than this before the attack.
Still. I see your point about the %4.2
New Jersey destroyed all of it's trolley lines about 40 years ago.e and adoped the bus as the primary means of public transport. It was mistake. The good news is we are returning back to the trolley again and it's name is called the Light Rail.
As I speak, there are huge car parks being constructed around the Light Rail for future expansion with the intention of pulling autos off the highways and commuters into rail transport. IT"S WORKING! The system is in its infancy as it was started 3 years ago but the rusults are incredible as the system will one day extend far into northern NJ. I wish you could ride the light rail with me in the morning and see all the car parks full to capicity. All of these cars were once headed into Manhattan via the Lincoln and Holland tunnel. We are slowly turning around.
Furthermore, NJ transit is building more commuter lines (trains) while others that were abondoned 30 yeas ago are being developed. It seems like in order to move ahead, we had to take two steps back. We still have a long way to go but I"m glad the state is spending the money to build more rails instead of building more freeways.
Unfortunately the rail system does not cover the entire state and those who are not heading into Manhattan have no choice but to drive. It's a work in progress that will take many years if ever to complete but the alternative would be disastrous in the long run.
I belive that cities without rail transport in the future will suffer tremendously as auto traffic increases each year but bridge and road construction lag far behind. It costs money to build a train system but construction of a freeway is about the same if not more.
New York City spent billions building Gowanus expressway and lets not forget the West Side Highway! All of these non-toll freeways cost millions to maintain each year.
The NJ Lightrail was constructed using bonds and public funds and it's paying itself off. I wish we could say that about our public highways.
Last edited by Dahon.Steve; 10-26-02 at 10:52 AM.
10-26-02, 07:28 PM
#54
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In cities like Atlanta, trains are packed so tightly that you sometimes have to wait for the next to get on. The cost to the commuter is less than parking.
Imagine all these folks jamming onto the roads with their cars!
The automobile gives developing cities a jump-start in growth. At the early stages (under 1 million population?) a city needs efficient auto transport to be attractive to people and businesses. After a point, a mature city needs more than just cars to continue to grow.
In Atlanta (and other major metropolitan areas,) just one of the dozen or more surrounding counties has a higher population than an entire Midwestern state. The strategy is just different, here.
Each area must match its need with its own efficient strategy.
Imagine all these folks jamming onto the roads with their cars!
The automobile gives developing cities a jump-start in growth. At the early stages (under 1 million population?) a city needs efficient auto transport to be attractive to people and businesses. After a point, a mature city needs more than just cars to continue to grow.
In Atlanta (and other major metropolitan areas,) just one of the dozen or more surrounding counties has a higher population than an entire Midwestern state. The strategy is just different, here.
Each area must match its need with its own efficient strategy.
