zoridog

I figured my 10 year old car costs $1200 annually. That is actual based on the last 3 years of maintenance, repairs and gas. I follow the recommended maintenance schedule (timing belt every 60K, oil change every 5K ...). Subtract the insurance and my variable costs are $850 so I'm running at .10/mile.

I save $1.74 every day I commute. My commutes in 2005 totalled 80 round trips = $140/year.

In the last month, I bought a set of wool base layers for $90, two tubes for $10 and a Topeak bag for $40 specifically for commuting.

Hmmmm. I hope my stocks are doing well because I won't get rich this way.

CB HI

So you don't count insurance. You also don't count the initial cost of the car; lets say $18,000 after taxes, dealer prep, etc.; and lets say the car last 15 years.

That brings your cost up to $2,400 a year. Are there any other driving cost you leaving out?

zoridog

CB HI,
You are absolutly correct. I still pay about $450/yr on insurance, registration and driver license fees because I use the car about 5000 miles per year. I pay that if it's parked in the garage or going cross country.

I realize that the cost of the car is a factor for each mile you get out of it. Problem is that I really don't know that number until the car is wrecked or sold. My Toyota has 136K miles on it now. I have seen Toyotas with 300K highway miles on the odometer (.06/mi).

I could total the car next week and get less than $3000 from insurance (result = .11/mi). Now I need a new car! Should I use the monthly payment as my cost ($350) or the value of the car ($18,000)? Now I'm giving myself a headache ... If you go carless, then you could add up the savings with accuracy. Can you imagine going from a Hummer to a bicycle? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Another equation complication ... I spent $1600 last year on a recumbent. I've wanted one for several years and just pulled the trigger. Of course I purchased it by justifying cost savings over using the car. But honestly, I would have bought one if I lived 100 miles from work and did no commuting whatsoever. As it stands, I recumbent commute only on really beautiful days. After 5 round trips of commuting, the recumbent is costing me over $18/mile. AAAARRRGGG!!!! Don't tell my wife!

sbhikes

So who cares about money?

Driving: boring
Biking: fun
Driving: bad for your health
Biking: healthy
Driving: fatter
Biking: thinner

Having fun, being healthy, losing weight: priceless.

ItsJustMe

I haven't been maintaining the car per the manufacturer's specs. I've been doing everything on all my cars up to and including complete engine teardowns and rebuilds since I was a kid. I never pay for anything but parts. I drive my cars extremely conservatively; for example, I changed my brake pads at 100,000 miles, and they didn't need it, they were only about 2/3 worn, but I was changing everything on general principle so I went ahead. I know people who tear through brakes in 15,000 miles. Manufacturers recommended maintenance intervals are based on average drivers. I know what my car needs, and I do it.

Please do your research. The Taurus of that year uses a timing chain, and is not a negative-clearance engine. I will have thousands of miles of noisy operation before the chain breaks, and when it does it'll just stop running, it will not be damaged. In cars I've owned with timing chains, I typically inspect about every 50,000 miles. It's very obvious when they're starting to go. If it had a belt I would have changed it by now. Costs about $30.


Depreciation is only a factor if you don't drive the same car for 15 years. If you do, it doesn't matter how much maintenance you do, it'll be worthless when you replace it.

The average american household does a lot of idiotic things, including buying gas guzzlers, and paying people $200 for a tuneup I can do in an hour with $50 in tools I only have to buy once.

Thank God, I'm not. Nobody on this forum is average.

I certainly hope this car lasts me well over 8 years. It's already 9+ years old, and has not a speck of rust or a scratch on the paint, gets the same mileage it always has, doesn't burn any oil, do anything unusual, etc. IMHO people go through cars so fast because they don't treat them like an investment, they beat the **** out of them. There's no reason short of accident that cars can't last 20 years.

Also, the assumption this thread started with was "assuming you must have a car" - I only state that I do not believe that if you have a car, it's necessary for it to cost you "thousands a year" in maintenance. You CAN spend that, perhaps the average person does. But it's not necessary. I have several friends who have cars that they have spent < $1000 for and driven them for years, and they're not particularly bad cars either. One is an old Saturn with a decent body, totally reliable, gets > 33 MPG and hasn't needed anything but oil changes for 5 years.

Yes, I agree, the average person spends an insane amount of money on cars. I don't, and I don't believe that it is NECESSARY to do so; people are just brainwashed into believing that they're not "successful" unless they have that new toy every few years, and it has to be shinier and louder than anyone elses.

ItsJustMe

Actually that's pretty much what I said earlier in this thread, both points.

sydney_b

Methinks this is the key point. Esp. that fun part. I can't do without it.

oilfreeandhappy

Nice chart Wulfheir! Our family of 4 drivers also has only one car, which usually stays with the wife. Both kids commute by bike (or somtimes bus) to school, and I bike to work. So I guess your purple line would be even steeper for us!

pricklycommute

Another point to consider. If you you dole out $20,000 for a new car, which I did last year , you lose maybe 5% a year in opportunity cost, since that money cannot be invested elsewhere. That's $1,000 a year that doesn't actually include the purchase cost, maintenance, gas, insurance, etc.

zowie

I pay $10 a day to park my bike securely at the closest available safe place which is three blocks from my office. I mentioned this some months ago and people replied that I was nuts. But they were not conversant with the realities of commuting into NYC.

It costs between $16 and 33 a day to park my car, $6 toll, $3-$6 gas, plus extreme wear that includes the parking attendants constantly scratching up the car. So $10 to bike is a fair deal economically. My ride is too far and hilly to use a beater that might be slightly safe locked on the street (for a few weeks on average, if I'm lucky).

That's a pretty even comparison because commuting when I can (can't do it everyday) doesn't really impact on what cars and bikes I purchase (I have more of both than I really need).

Fastfwd

That's probably close to 2000$/year. Can't your employer find you a closet or something where you can put the bike and give you 500-1000$ less raise this year?

zowie

Employer would but building security won't allow bikes inside.

cerewa

People spend insane amounts of money on old cars too. My girlfriend's car has, over the past year, needed a belt pulley, (part, $300, labor, $50) a couple of belts, a starter motor, a plastic door handle, and an oil change. My girlfriend did the oil change herself, but we have no clue how to do the starter and the pulley safely. Sure, if we knew a lot about cars it would have been a good bit cheaper to maintain, but even so the car is not cheap to operate.

zoridog

Parking and tolls for $100 - $200/week ........OUCH!

cerewa

I'd bug the people that set policy for the building security folks!

I'd also be tempted to buy another $30 cheap-o bike every third day and lock up outside instead of paying for bike parking.

Mr_Super_Socks

Sorry if the tone of my post was confrontational, but I wanted to correct the somewhat misleading impression that a person can get away with spending $1000 over 9 years to maintain a car. Most people can't and don't.

You are a mechanic. You buy your car to drive it 'til it dies. Your cars cost you far less than the average person. You are among the most frugal and cost-effective car owners in America (not being sarcastic here - you really sound exceptional). You do everything Consumer reports recommends and you keep your auto costs to an absolute minimum. That's great, but it's also highly unusual. For the vast majority that don't know how to inspect a timing chain, replace cv boots, or even change their oil, the costs are high indeed. For the many, many people who do have to have their timing belt changed, it's a $600 job at the Honda dealership. It's great that you have the skills, know-how and time to regularly inspect and change your own timing chain (or belt in your next car) but very few car owners have that luxury and would never attempt that job.

You still have to buy a new $20,000 car every 15 years. And most cars become essentially worthless well before their 15th birthday.

I'm not sure there are a lot of cars out there with 20 years (240,000 miles or more) that are really worth driving, but your Taurus may be the exception. Anyway, the 8-year figure I quoted was just my extrapolation from average annual costs. The point is that the average American spends over $1800 per year on each car (not including the cost of the car itself or depreciation) regardless of how long the car lasts. If it lasts 20 years, it costs $36,000 in non-purchase expenses. I was just saying that the average car owner would have spent almost $15,000 to your $1,000 in the last 8 years.
I agree.

zowie

I don't even know how to find the right person, but I will say the security here is for real. The building is a potential terrorist target, and even before that they were strict with bikes because literally hundreds of messengers and food delivery guys come on bikes everyday and it'd be a huge hassel for them to filter out the handful of riders who work here.

However, I've just ordered a Downtube. I don't know how it's going to work out for me ride-wise, but if it does I'd be able to stick it in its bad and bring it into the building and it will pay for itself after 25 rides.

Poguemahone

crap, my main problem is I keep buying bikes. They're pretty cheap-- just picked up a cool Kettler city bike for 25$, for example, but then I fix 'em up, which always costs more (the Kettler is getting Nitto dove bars and some barcons, for instance, and I need a new rear light for it). I've got a big investment in bike tools (a thousand bucks at least, I basically have a complete shop with reamers, facers, cutting tools, frame repair stuff, you name it-- about all I don't have is welding tools, and I've got access to them). I sell a lot of what I find, so I suppose I break even most years, but dear god, I hate to think how much I spend on bikes a year... I doubt I save even a dime commuting overall. Oh well, gotta have a hobby...

LittleBigMan

Most certainly, this is what we're dealing with.

LittleBigMan

I figure my new bent cost me as much as I saved on gas last year.

HiYoSilver

My main problem is too much knowledge and it's all your fault!!!!!!

The really good bike of last year is now so-so. It used to be a Camry and now it's an saturn/focus/cobalt. Instead that BMW looks like a necessary commute vehicle.

So what's the option?
Either
stop reading the forums and save money
or
keep on reading so you keep on riding and pay the price of buying those new wheels. Or at least start saving to buy the new wheels..

yeap.. count me in those falling behind.