commuting bikes....will they ever be like the Dutch?
 

With more attention on commuting by bicycle, due to high gas
prices, do you think that in time bikes will ever become more
like the upright commuters the Dutch and Europeans use???

This type of bike is much admired in the America but not available.
Sure, there are some bikes that attempt to fill the role of Dutch commuters
but none,that I know of, are close. We seem more concerned with fashion
that plain practicality.

What's your opinion??

I'm mostly concerned with having a bike that I can ride up the steep hills that I encounter every day and a 50 lb. bike with upright geometry won't cut it for me. While those bikes are very practical for those who live in a flat area with only a few miles to go, the rest of us need something different. My commuter is far from fashionable but is nothing like a Dutch commuter.

The Netherlands isn't known as "the lowlands" for nothing - the whole country is incredibly flat. A large portion of the country is simply reclaimed land from the ocean, supported by "dijken" - or ****s, as we know them.

North America, by contrast, is very hilly and has lots of varied terrain. I'd love to have a Dutch commuter (and the terrain to use it), but I've got some considerable hills on my commute that I'd never be able to conquer without a geared bike.

I don't know where this canard about upright bikes being unsuited to hill climbing came from. The only advantege of riding in a fetal position is with headwinds. (My road bike is quite good for this, although it has other limitations that preclude daily use. As for the gearing issue, the high end European commuting bikes, like mine, typically have multispeed internal hubs. I haul my daughter to day camp every summer workday, up steep hills with no problems. The 50 pound Dutch bikes are an exterme example, and have clearly not developed with hills in mind. However, one can get a fully equipped bike with proper upright riding position, chainguard, rack, fenders, lights and so on that weighs a bit over 30 pounds.

Breezers have all the functionality of typical Dutch commuters, plus lighter weight and multiple gears. Harris Cyclery has Koga Myata, also quite good.Good German bikes by Kettler and Utopia are possible to locate, thoug a lot of research is involved. (Hint: Germany has hills, unlike Holland.) Vanilla and ANT have wonderful, custom built luxury bikes. All these bikes fulfill the roles of Dutch commuters in all ways other than weight. Come to think of it, the Koga Myata is Dutch-designed.

Practical bikes, i.e. equipped so they can be easily used as car substitutes on short (<10 mile) trips are available in the US, although probably not at your local bike shop. You have to look for them. Google my references for details.

Paul

It's not difficult to piece one together yourself. Get an old road frame from the 70's, powdercoat it black, get upright handlebars, fenders, and an internal hub.

I did this, no internal hub though, and love my bike.

Admired by whom?

Bingo! Will America ever be as flat as Holland.

The availability of "practical" bikes is simply not a make-or-break issue for would be commuters in America. Find me one American who is going to say:

"Oh good. Finally I can get a bike with a lower top tube, an enclosed drivetain, dynamo lighting, an integrated lock, and a kickstand. NOW I can ride to work."

Not everyone has the same set of riding conditions. For the terrain and distance of my commute, a road bike that can take fenders and a small rack is the optimum configuration. I have such a bike and love it.
However, if I was doing more of what I would call utility cycling ( where the bike is the primary mode of all transport ) in a closer, more dense urban community, perhaps a more upright and heavily built bike would be good, but I suspect I would still be on a similar bike to what I have, but with panniers and better lighting.
One of the most important aspects of bike commuting for me is FUN, and a heavy upright bike don't cut it.

That's an issue if the cyclist intends to commute across America. If it's all that hilly (ANYWHERE) most people won't consider bike commuting no matter what kind of bikes are available. Then again - Think commuting in Chicago or any place else where the distance is right and the terrain is reasonable.

Atlanta is very hilly and yet we commute here, we just tend to do it on lighter bikes with more gears.

I consider the British and Schwinn three-speeds Dutch bike-ish: very utilitarian, with an emphasis on durability and functionality rather than on the latest in technology and on light weight. I'm talking bikes like the Raleigh Sports (and many varients), the Schwinn Breeze, etc. These bikes are widely available and cheap.

I was browsing the cycling department at Sports Chalet the other day and they had a couple European type commuters there - step through frames, internally geared hubs, front generator hub and light combo, rear rack. I thought they were pretty neet looking. Then I picked on up. Yea, it must have weighed 45 lbs. I just think that although some american commuters do indeed admire the look, when it comes time to pedal the thing down the road we prefer a more performance oriented bike.

DanO

There are a lot of bikes available in the U.S. that aren't that different than Dutch bikes:

http://a1072.g.akamai.net/f/1072/206...dia/672684.jpg
Marin Belvedere, $500

http://a1072.g.akamai.net/f/1072/206...dia/612559.jpg
K2 Alturas, $300

http://a1072.g.akamai.net/f/1072/206...dia/600670.jpg
Novara (REI) Fusion, $750


Granted, they're different than what a lot of folks think of when they think of a Dutch bike:

http://www.dutchbike.co.uk/Pictures/...l/JerseyCL.jpg

but it's the same idea. Funny thing is, I see very few of these bikes on the road, and the LBS or REI always seem to have them on sale. Maybe once we're paying for gasoline what they pay in Europe, we'll see more of these on the road.

Cheers.

If you change the statement to end, "NOW I will keep riding to work, because it is so much less hassle than driving." there might be quite a few. You have to try commuting or shopping without these features to understand why they are desirable.

For me, going without them would be like donning goggles and duster, starting my car with a crank, and manually adjusting the spark advance.


Paul

Don't forget the Breezers.

I have always wondered about one thing concerning dutch cycling though...can you attach cleats to them wooden shoes? ;)

hey lets join this group, then we can subdivide into smaller groups and dis the people in the other subgroups.

abikeisabikeisabikeisabike get on it and ride.

Oh, really, they are always on sale? I've been looking to replace my comfort tank for some time now and those things do not look exactly like dutch uprights, but just change the handlebar, add "parts"(not accessories) like fenders, racks, etc and it is practically indistinguishible.

I've been using a Bianchi Milano since they first came out here in Salt Lake City (which some think has hills). I had to add fenders (stock on the newer versions), rack, lights, all to make it like my commuting bike in Germany. At least it came with a kickstand. It may not be light enough for some forum people, but I've ridden it many centuries through the Wasatch Mountains, though the climbing for a lot of my rides is less than 4000 feet of gain, starting from about 4000 ft. Light weight is over-rated. When you ride every day, in all weather, reliability is way more important.

Or we just bust it out on our heavy single speeds.

+1 A 50lb bike + 10lbs of gear constitutes about 1/2 my weight. Too much! No it that same model were about 18lbs I might consider it.

I happily commute or shop without the enclosed drivetrain, integrated lock, lowered top tube, etc. For me, they are unnecessary. The only thing I will no longer do without is fenders, but that's just my preference.

I don't really get the charm with this. I look at this and see my dad's old steel bike from the 1950's, square as heck. I really don't see that much utility in this either. Sturdy? Sure. Some nifty features like a chain guard, sure, but this is not something you would ride any significant distance with at a reasonable speed. This looks more like something unfit people would leisurely ride through the park or pedal down to the corner to pick up a gallon of milk.

Pretty spot-on comment. In The Netherlands, everyone lives closer together, gas prices are higher, and a large chunk of the bike culture centers around practicality, rather than recreation or racing. They have dedicated bike lanes with their own semaphores, for God's sake. They also tend to have local markets, close to home, so it makes sense to have a bike that carries two kids and a couple sacks of groceries from home, to the market and back home. Not a significant distance.

Don't know about you, but where I live, probably 80% of the cyclists on the street are wearing spandex, not work or casual apparel. So I guess the answer to the OP's question is "probably not". Not for a while, anyway. What do you think?

Let's see... We pay 2-3 times less than the Netherlands for gas. Our population density is ~140th in the world while the Netherlands' is 15th. The Netherland's name literally means "low countries" while many cities in the U.S. rest in hilly areas.

I'd say give erosion a couple hundred million years or wait a couple thousand for the U.S. to approach the Netherlands' population density and we should start using uprights more. Until then, feel free to get off your high horse and recognize that biking in the U.S. is primarily the pursuit of fit people, and just because they like faster bikes doesn't mean they're vain egoists who put fashion above pragmatism.