Dutch commuting culture is even unique for Europe. The bikes are really designed for riding in "civilian clothing"- and the only person I ever saw wearing a helmet in Amsterdam appeared to be mentally ill. Where I live, people tend to dress the part for biking (and there is a very high helmet use). A much higher percentage of people commute than in the US. My office has lockers, a shower room, etc. (despite being owned by Halliburton)- and bike parking areas by several building entrances. If I chose, I could commute all the way to work without ever riding on the street. Commuting is not a class issue as it tends to be regarded in the US.

I don't think it is possible to live further than walking distance from a grocery store in much of europe. We don't have those huge superstores that take up acres of space for parking lots, etc. There are bus stops out in the middle of nowhere- even in the mountains. It is nuts.

In Amsterdam, I swear there are more bikes than cars on the roads. I cannot imagine trying to "workout" with a ride, since bike traffic is very slow. Alternatively, there are bike highways that connect cities.

I imagine that riding a bike in the Netherlands is a very different experience all around. Wouldn't they be able to go at a much more leisurely pace than we can? In the US we're a minority trying to compete with aggressive automobiles on inadequately designed roads, like a mouse in an elephant stampede.

This is an interesting post because I was just wondering WHY bicycle fashion ever went the way of the road bike and then to the monutain bike in the first place.

For most of America's history, the bicycle WAS the Dutch style; an upright and very functional design. Look at the British style three speeds that have just started to become noticed by collectors. They were PERFECT for most city riding. They put the rider in a comfortable riding position. The wheels were 26" by 1.275" = good for the stop/to of city riding and optimal thin/stable wheels for easy torque and stability.

They had an extremely reliable internal 3-speed hub.

Many people did use these bikes. Until about the late 1980's, just about every garage in the USA had one, until the last of them finally started to congregate at the landfills. My first commuter bicycle was an old three speed upright and I LOVED it! It had a sidesaddle badket on the back that could carry at least 60 lbs of groceries. It was an enormously functional machine.

So to answer the question as to weather or not the USA will adopt the Dutch style; we have already been there. The question is, "when will we go back?"

Actually, most American cities are as flat as Holland. Just about any city between the Rocky Mountains and The Appalachians is flat enough not to mention any real vertical climbs. Even most of the cities east of the Appalachians are flat.

For MANY, and maybe even most people, bicycling is within their means of being practical transportation. Sure, some people live in far-away suburbs and some people live in bicycling unfriendly cities, but that is not the norm. MANY people in the USA live in areas that are not excessively hilly and MANY people live within a reasonable distance of work, shopping, and leisure.

I remember seeing ONE of these beasts back around 1976, but "10-speeds" were well established as the adult bike by the late 1970's, at least.

Answer: "noooooooo!" I'd buy a moped before I'd ride one of those things.

When I used to commute in the late 70's and early 80's in the phila area, people thought that
I was just some sort of a health nut. Then eventually about 3 other people at work started to do it as they saw it was not the geeky. But other than me....I never saw taht many people.

When I commute to work on my Kettler European city bike (Nexus-7), my Specialized Crossroads hybrid, or my wife's road bike, the door to door times are the same over my 5 mile one-way commute. I'm guessing that the internal gears are an advantage in urban traffic with a lot of stops. The Kettler must weigh 5-10 pounds more than the other two, but the heavier weight does not see produce any net speed loss.

Paul

Depends on terrain, and distance.

I do think that coomutes up to 4mi are reasonable, even to joe six-pack. Heck, I was a joe when i got my first decent bike (diamondback oulook).

Honestly, I think entry level MTBs could be our version of the dutch bike, if there was one change: extend the chain stays by 2.5", and adjust the seat stays accordingly. This would preovide proper room for panniers, as well as allow maximized use of the rackspace. Fedners are easily mounted, and there is plenty of room for lights. And wide enough gearing for anything (although a 17-36 cassette would have been nice).

4 miles is just a warmup, if the weather is favorable. :D

I commuted daily in Philadelphia from 1971 - 1976 either to City Hall in the center of Center City or to 46th and Market, just west of the Penn Campus and almost never saw another bicycle commuter in the flesh in the city. I knew a few from social meetings but never from any encounters on the street. What other people thought? I don't know. I didn't make an issue of it, I came to work in regular clothes, my co-workers didn't care (most came to work by public transit) and nobody ever talked about my bicycling anymore than I talked about their bus/subway ride or their golf game.

Agree with terrain and distance comments. Also agree with the other poster who noted that there are lots of opportunities for millions of Americans to ride reasonably short distances to work/school/ recreation/stores on reasonably flat terrain where they actually live. Just few opportunities to find a bike ready to roll out of the LBS suitable for the task.

The hills of SF are not the typical topography of American cities, and long distance (let's say >10 mile flat, less or none if hilly) commutes of bicycling enthusiasts) are not the typical scenario for Europeans or American city dwellers who view cycling as a practical means of daily transportation. There is hardly a need for a super duper light weight, "high efficiency", high cost bicycle to do such cycling. But you wouldn't know it to walk into a US LBS.

All they'd have to do is ask the bike store to install fenders, rack, sidebags and lights.

Thats about what the Breezers are. They are based on mountain bikes, probably lengthened, and fitted with fenders, internal gears / changuards, and generators. It is also possible that some of our lightweight geared cruisers could evolve into good transportation bikes. Add a generator and lights to a Giant Cypress, and you have the near-equivalent of the Breezers. After all, the cruiser was the standard American transportation bike.

It is good to keep in mind that many of the features of the Dutch bikes respond to universal needs (upright position, clothing protection, lights, weather protection, low maintenance/high servicability rate) but other features reflect specific Dutch conditions (flat topography, lots of sand blowing around.) The Dutch also want bikes that reflect their own traditions.

Although suburban sprawl is common in the US, there are plenty of urban areas like Metropolitain Washington, DC, where cars are becoming very inconvenient to use for short trips. I think interest in cycling as a way to deal with congestion is taking hold. Example: five years ago, when I started shopping for a commuter bike, there was nothing available through "normal" channels. Today, many bike shops have Breezers or the Giant Cypress, Harris Cyclery has the Koga, and a number of custom fabricators like ANT and Vanilla have offerings as well. This market segmnent is perhaps badly serverd; however, it was utterly ignored five years ago. That's a radical change.

I don't think the US will develop Dutch bikes, because we are not Holland. Along with other posters, I expect that we will have increasing availability of similarly-equipped bikes that will reflect our conditions and traditions.

Paul

This thread seems to be diverging a little bit into how and why people should commute and cultural difference between the US and Europe but it has been a very interesting thread. Here are a couple of more points.

1.) From time to time I read stats about the average distance that an American commutes to work. I don’t remember any exact numbers but it seems to me that relatively few Americans live within 5 miles of their work place and the average commute distance is considerably more than this has been increasing.

2.) Many Americans suburbs, especially newer ones, are laid out like branches on a tree with many side streets, that go nowhere, feeding into a few main arteries. The commercial areas tend to be along these main arteries, which are very unfriendly to bike cyclists. Furthermore, this layout tends to favor a few centralized locations for things such as supermarkets. I would tend to bet that a lot of people do not live within 3-4 miles of a grocery store, although there may be smaller convenience stores closer by.

3.)There seems to be some blurring between two groups of people: People who currently commute and people who don’t commute but could. First of all I understand the keep it simple argument for new commuters and I, like a lot of people, started with a bike, a backpack, a lock, and two blinkies. I agree that this is all you need but as you gain experience in commuting you also gain sophistication in equipment and optimizing it for your needs. There seems to be this presumption that anybody that goes beyond the simple basics in equipment is somehow an elitist, arrogant @ss. I don’t agree with that, just as I don’t think that anyone who chooses to use just the basics is any less of a commuter. I understand that these Dutch bikes provide a simple, one package start-up kit for new commuters but this is something I would not use now. Quite frankly I see these bikes as 50 year old technology and I don’t see the sense in giving up gearing, hand positions, adding extra weight, and adding useful but unnecessary features such as kick stands and chain guards. I choose to use more current technology but this is my personal opinion.

4.) Finally, I don’t think you can remove fitness from the discussion. Many people commute for fitness plain and simple, and is there any difference in replacing two 45 minute bike commutes with two 20 minute car commutes and one 45 minute work out at the gym? It is a fact that Americans are getting fatter and more unfit, and if gas prices continue to climb you may see more bike cyclist but you are likely to see more mopeds as well.

It also makes you wonder why American-based companies like Cannondale and Specialized build superior commuting bicycles that only available in European countries. :(

ie: Cannondale Badboy Nexus & Rohloff

Cannondale Vintage Series (An entire style not availabe in the US??!!!??)
http://de.cannondale.com/bikes/06/ce...r_vintage.html

Specialized Globe w/ disc brakes

There are a lot of good points here but one very important one is missing. In Amsterdam bikes get stolen at an alarming rate. If you walk out of work and your bike is gone, you go ahead and steal someone elses. It's like a communal lot of bicycles. Hence the flat black and the uniformity of all the bikes. In America manufacturers like to add a little flare to the styles to help sales. This is just not practical in Holland.

It is not easy to respond to "stats" that are remembered from a read from somewhere. But I'll give a stab at it.

One. Do the stats include a large slice of the population who do have routine destinations a relatively short distance away from their residence (for debate purposes <5 miles on reasonable flat terrain) distances? Namely all age students and youth who are allowed out of their home by themselves?

Two. I seriously doubt the accuracy of your "relatively few" "stat" about distance from work. Perhaps it is based on an average distance and lord knows how it was calculated. Even if 80% of the population never travels a distance less than 5 miles (a conjured high side guesstimate with no more reliability than "relatively few') , that leaves a lot of trips that could be considered as potential bike trips for someone who thought cycling might be a viable option under the right conditions.

Three. Though the suburbs are expanding, urban areas in cities and towns and villages still have more than a "relatively few" people living in them and with access to various amenities within 5 miles. And it is in these areas where the practical unardorned commuting bike so popular in Europe makes so much sense.

I suggest that the bicycle industry would have been wise to look at a market more expansive than the high end suburban enthusiast market that they cater to, and a cycling population that so many BF posters think are the only commuters worthy of consideration.

When isn't the weather favorable in Hawaii? I lived on Oahu for 18 months courtesy of Uncle Sam in 1969 an 1970. Never saw a day that wasn't fine for bicycling. Rain? Bah! It will be over soon enough and there will be plenty of rainbows to make up for it. Cold? Whatz dat?

To some degree, but I think the industry would rather sell to the people it knows it can sell to, and knows how to sell to.

What sells commuting is people like us, not bike companies.

It is all about speed.
 

No way other bikes are as fast as a road bike even in city traffic. My summertime bike going to work (only 4 miles) is an old SLX roadbike with Dura Ace parts. Very comfortable, good brakes and I have it set up with road pedals that take cleats I can use MTB shoes with. If I need to carry stuff I take a backpack, if it rains I suit up and have covers for my shoes.

Therein lies the challenge. First, people need to realize that living in the inner cities has its own perks, and only then will the cycling related paradigm shift happen in a large scale. Start by moving to the center city and help the emrging market of denser living.

For the 5 mile commute and some riding around, I would have one of those beach bikes with a coaster brake, lockable panniers, and geared hubs. Ah .... and a hitch to go and buy groceries.

For other tooling around I would keep my fixed gear ... but that is just my taste.

You asked for it. You got it! Statistics on the distances to the work place. This comes for the US Census Burea's American Housing Survey - Journey to Work, which can be found at the link below. 2003 was the last year that they had data. You did get me. According to this, 26.5% of people either work at home or commute less than 4 miles.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housi...s03/tab224.htm

< 1 mile 3.9%
1-4 miles 19.5%
5-9 miles 19.5%
10-19 miles 25.2%
20-29 miles 11.1%
30-49 miles 7.4%
50> 1.9%
Works at home 3.1%
no fixed place 8.5%

median 10 miles

Although, I should add that it appears that the median in suburbs is 15 miles, and distances do vary between regions of the country. So the local media in a particular location may give a differenct perception for a local area versus the national average.

to all of the 'real' cyclists who slag on utility bikes and 3 speeds, go pick up an old raleigh at a flea market, put some new tires on it.... they are fun as **** to ride, pull the lycra out of your collective ass crack and quit making assumptions.

Well...you could start with the 60 inches of rain we have so far this year...