As entertaining as this thread has been,I would like to add one comment.

I think it should be noted that Cig apparently knows what he's doing with bikes. How many average Wally World customers would be able to get this bike running properly? The store certainly wouldn't. There is a market for lower quality(cheaper) products,but there needs to be a support structure of some kind for them. Otherwise it's a major safety hazard.

Let me see if I hear you correctly...and you'll have to take me at my word that I'm not trolling by asking this.

Are you saying that, if someone...like CigTech or myself for that matter (wife, 2 kids, another one on the way, mortgage, dog, etc) who cannot drop $600-$800 on a suitable road bike, one that will not be used for racing, but for commuting and perhaps a metric or century ride or 2 during the course of the year...AND are mechanically inclined (i.e. can adjust/replace/repair components on such a bike)...that a department store bike can be worth it/"meet the need"/serve our purposes and then some? Or what about a craigslist Schwinn Varsity/Continental/Le Tour to be had for $75-$150? Does the same theory apply?

I'm curious as to yours and others opinions re: this.

If I need to start another thread re: this then kindly chide me into doing so.

No,I'm saying that if you need to have skills in order to put something(a vehicle) right(make it safe) when it's brand new,then there's a problem. If Cig were reporting that the paint scratched easily,decals were peeling,and it got some rust the first time out in the rain;then that's life. It's a low-level product. But he said he needed to fix the brakes when he got it home. No excuse for that.

You can't expect something cheap to be high quality,but there's no reason it should be unsafe.

Actually he said "So the first thing I did when I got home was adjust the breaks." The emphasis is mine. I would expect that from any bike during the first 100 miles or so no matter where it came from. lots of little springs and cables and stuff to break in.

What are the chances that something relevant comes from this test? I mean to say that the bike will more than likely perform better than many people expect because they have a predetermined idea as to outcome based on price and the reality that most folks here would have already bailed on this bike due poor initial build and the amonut of maintinence needed to keep it road worthty on a daily basis.

I ride a 1978 Trek. I paid $153 shipped to my home via e-bay. I average about 100 miles per week. 1/3 of my commute is on unpaved, potholed cinder covered path. So far 1 broken spoke on 25+ year old wheels, brake adjustment due to pad wear and chain/lube cleaning. I have 1800+ miles on the bike so far. What I fail to see when comparing any well built used bike to the Denali is, where is the value of the "cheap" bike? I understand Cig needed a bike in a short time frame but his "test" is meaningless in my mind as very few people on this forum would purchase this bike and the average person who does is:

A. Not putting up that kind of milage.
B. Not spending the time, money or have the expertice to repair as needed.
c. Would replace as soon as things started to get difficult to maintain, with a bike of similar quality.

So i guess I wonder what the point is? I see plenty of aluminum framed road bikes on e-bay that go between $100-$200. Sorry if I am comig off as a jerk, but the outcome has very little pratical real world application. Entertainement value, plenty.

I don't see any bikes at that price on ebay.

How would someone actually testing a product for an extended use period not be relevant? Those are the best types of reviews rather than your average "I bought it a week ago, it's great" reviews that you can find plenty of? How would a person that would buy this particular bike at Walmart be able to correctly buy a bike on Ebay, being able to tell over the internet without holding the actual product that it fits them?

A. Cigtech put up his estimations of how often he thought this bike would be used in a prior post. You can refer to those numbers.

B. That's what a local bike shop is for.

C. If they're going to buy a second one of the same quality that makes this test even more relevant, doesn't it?

Lurker: agreed.

Cig-shine on you crazy diamond.

all the rest of you whiners shut up and let the man do what he's going to do. It's not like he's going to suck away all the bandwidth for your "valid" and, I'm sure, trenchant commentary.

I have to compliment Cig for not getting into it with his detractors. The man is zen.

It's interesting and that's all it needs to be. Why some people have issues with his reviewing a cheap bike is beyond me. Relent.

Ok, let me ask you a few questions.
1) does your 1978 bike work as well when it was new as it does now?
2) are you absolutely certain that your old bike works better than the new denali?
3) did you replace the BB, grease, etc, that simply will degenerate in quality with age?
4) is your bike new?

ok.. cig's review is a good review. why? it tells us WHY the Denali suck or why it does not with experience and reason that is justified. (unlike someone) There are actually quite a few people who have purchased or intend to purchase this bike on this forum. We are, the poeple who dont want to cough up $600+ for a new bike, dont want to search or get a used bike, are interested in the denali. why? 1) its cheap. 2) if cig's experience proves that it is useable with adjustment (breaks - wow) then we might seriously considering buying it. Now if the bike breaks a derailer and such, we would havce to reconsider. if you arent interested in the bike or the review and have no thought that you can back up with actual data, errr.. get lost?

now if you had said, i see no reason why this bike is of interest because: reason # 1, reason # 2, etc (instead of your opinion # 1, opinion # 2, etc). then we might be interested to hear you. Now if you are a bike god and poeple respect your opinions, because your opinions are backed up with reasons we may not understand, etc. ..

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Cig: Did you have to do major adjustment to the derailers? How bad are the derailers after your usage so far? How does the derailer compare to other bikes you have experience?

My God man, are you blind? It's because any positive spin on a Walmart bike cheapens all of our expensive, LBS bikes by association. It's like inviting a pig to the dog show; we can't let this go on!

Of all the forums here you'd think this one would be the least concerned with image and the most concerned with finding something/anything that can get the job done. I mean how many people here post about plastering their bikes with reflective tape, geeked out to the hilt with a bunch of lights, etc? That's why I like it. Function before form, way before form.

Amen. Craigslist here in metro Detroit is nothing but used Walmart bikes for cheap. Something worthwhile is pretty darn rare.

E-bay has two major problems. For starters, there is always somebody, someplace willing to pay a ridiculous sum of money for some old crappy bike. I've watched far too many auctions that I was interested in climb to insane levels in the last minute. I'm sorry, but $600 for a lugged steel frame touring bike that cost $500 new four years ago is kind of nuts.

The other problem with e-bay is that shipping bicycles is crazy expensive since they are not super great shapes for packaging. Even if you score a nice $150 bike on e-bay (good luck!) now you have to add another $60 to get it to your door.

I'm not buying Walmart bikes, but that's because I can afford not to. I'm not going to knock Cig because he decided to avoid surfing e-bay for 8 months only to get outbid on a couple dozen bikes that he could find in his size that were not Walmart crap to begin with.

I know people want to bash me for being a killjoy/Pr*ck. I do find the thread entertaining and an interesting. Sorry if my post came off mean sprited/self righteous but I seriously want to know how many people would consider buying the bike based on the review, provided it comes in as a positive at the end? Would most of the stuff that cig has had to adjust/fix/ desribe already not be turn off to most folks? I will continue to watch just like everyone else.

As for the ebay and craigslist stuff I find things all the time. I live outside philadelphia and there are plenty of nice bikes availble for $100-$200. It changes quickly and you have to act fast, but they are there, at least in my area. I looked at cig's CL the day of the orignal post and there was a nice Motobecane for $150 or so. I don't know if it is his size or not but it was there and available. As for ebay it takes more time but I have had completely different experinces on both CL & ebay than what the previous posters desribe. As for the performance of the Trek, I took it out of the box put it toghther and it has worked fine. No issues or less than the OP desribed he has done to bike in question hence my comparison. Not being an elitist just comparing my experince within the same price range.

I perdict that bike will perform fine as it is being maitained by someone who is skilled and detail oriented. My point as to the validity was that one camp has already decided the bike will fail. The other camp is more focused on cig's right to conduct the test and defendng it. My question is who here will be purchasing/ consider purchasing the bike based on the review? That to me is the valid point of the review.

Umm... Take a look at the first post, more specifically the third picture (close-up of the front of the bike), particularly at the front brake. We ain't talking "little springs and cables break-ins" here...

To the Op. That's a nice look'n bike. Good value too.

Here's the thing, I've bought plenty of things off Ebay and Craigslist. Nearly all of them have been opportunity buys where I have plenty of time to deal with the hassle and aggravation of private party purchases over the internet. To buy over the internet you need to have a decent knowledge of what you're buying. You also need to be willing to deal with either an uninformed seller or completely incorrect information. As you, yourself pointed out (emphasis mine) you have no idea whether the bike will fit Cigtech. Even if the bike size is given, how do you know if it's correct? You may be able to pick out the $100 bike that's good from the one that's bad. I can tell you I'll have hard time doing so, and likely so will a lot of other people.

Also as you point out (emphasis mine again) you put your bike together. That presumes a certain level of skill. This level of skill isn't something that can be presumed by most of the buyers of a Walmart bike.

When I need something now I go to REI or if I need something soon I get it off an internet website. I pay a premium for that but I can afford it. To scale that down, if you need a bike now and it will either see limited use or infrequent use then why not head to Walmart?

Why spend $20 on a Snap-On socket when you can go to Autozone and buy the same size socket for $3 if you're a shade-tree mechanic? You can make whatever arguments you want about the Snap-On socket being far superior and the Autozone no-name socket being not worth the money but you have to put that into a context of use.

A professional mechanic who is going to be both annoyed and losing time will go with the Snap-On socket. They'll come out and get you a replacement socket if you manage to bust it. You get to go to Autozone yourself and buy another one when you shatter the cheapo one. The tolerances of the cheapo socket will be far worse than for the Snap-On socket and you may end up stripping some nuts after frequent use. However, when I needed a particular socket to go change the brakes on my car I bought the $3 socket from Autozone because it's going to just see that one use and then sit at the bottom of my toolbox.

The same goes with a cheap Walmart bike for someone that either needs a bike now or just wants to get on something and ride. I think the review is quite useful for the later person. Someone that goes to Walmart for a bike likely will not have the experience of Cigtech, nor the aptitude to repair the things he's fixed so far. Some people have no interest in learning how to fiddle with their bikes.

For them this review is useful since they'll realize that buying this bike could involve a lot of trips to the LBS for some repairs right off the bat. How does no one posting "I'm going to go buy this bike based on this review" invalidate the review? How many reviews have you read on the internet and simply closed the webpage after you obtained the information you needed? I've done so hundreds of times. The review will be here. Google will find it. The unfortunate buyers will have to sort through our extensive, tedious, and distracting argument in this thread to find the updates on the actual bike use.

Perhaps once the test is completed Cigtech can summarize all of his posts in a new thread so someone only has to read one post to get the entire review.

I'm very happy that Cigtech is doing this review and log.

I am one of the people that hasn't dived in and purchased a $700 bicycle yet because it's so hard to justify. I think one of the most interesting points for me out of this thread has been that Cig's bike cost about $170 and when he upgrades it to Sora equipment his cost will be the about the same as other $300 bikes. That encourages me to buy that $500 or $700 bike as being "worth it". But then again, when I was considering $1000 commuting bikes plus the equipment and maintenance required for upkeep and adjustments by the LBS, it wasn't any cheaper than driving my car (your conditions may vary).

So, I've had to determine my motivation for riding. It's simply for my health and to allow my legs to take a break from running. I'd also like to ride with my daughter at some point. Therefore, a fixed-gear sounds suitable. But, I can't figure out why the prices are so high on a fixed-gear. And not to take this thread off topic, but does the Denali look like suitable candidate for fixed-gear conversion? I'm not knowledgeable enough about the differences between mountain bike drive trains and road bike drive trains.

You can use your disposable income, buy a quality model bike and have your LBS check and maintain it frequently - or - you can get cheaper or used bike that you plan to maintain yourself. That doesn't necessary mean you can't afford more bike. For me, it's just a personal preference and I haven't decided how far into the bike I want to go.

I think I'm getting more out of Cigtech's experience because he's giving a blow by blow narrative of what's happening. If I'm going to get into the maintenance of the bike, then a cheap but new bike might be the best thing to try. After all, I won't be out too much money if I break something or screw it up. But, if I had a $1000 bike, I'd be more comfortable bringing it in to the LBS. And the cost of the bike would justify that expense.

I like this review, as well, and sent the link to an accquaintence who has been looking into commuting, but has been looking in the $700+ range for a bike. I also like this review in the context of learning what sort of things to check myself, considering I just bought a used bike (198x Miyata) and may need to make similar adjustments over time.

I knew that I was going to catch some flack over this review on this or any bike forum. But to me it is worth it to see so many of you guys going over it like you have. I have stated my reasons for getting the Denali. I have bought used bikes in the past and will buy some in the future. And I have been looking on E-bay for a nice used bike. And I have bought new high dollar bikes as well.

Any ways, on with the review log.

What I did to fix the chain kick back problem was to pull the cable a little tighter, by means of the cable adjuster on the rear derailer. That's all.

As far as the breaks go. I had to adjust the pads because they where all only hitting the breaking surface by 50% or less. Meaning (that like in the picture) their where all over the place. And the rear break is a little off center. Because the, spring in the break caliper, is weak on the left side. It does not rub but only clears the left side by 2mm and by 4mm on the right side. I like to have 2.5mm clearance on both sides of the breaking surface. That way I a lot of stopping power when I touch the breaks. The front pads are set to 2mm on either side. So i did not fix them I just adjusted them. By pulling the cables tighter in the calipers.

I did go over the whole bike when I first got it home and lubed every bearing in the bike with white lithium grease. I also went through and tighten every nut and bolt on the bike. most where not that tight.

The most problems I have had with the bike are the MTB rear shifter. It does not stay in tune very long. The last time I had to adjust the rear derailer was due to cable starch and had nothing to due with the shifter. So maybe the shifter is starting to break in. We will see.

I have now put 335.95 miles on the Denali. I only put 7.04 miles on the bike today doing the commute. Tomorrow I'm off and am planning at least 30 miles to see if the shifter/derailer is going to drift any more. I had found (with any new bike) that it's takes about 300 to 450 miles to get it to a point where you won’t have to keep adjusting everything. So I think that I am getting the Denali to that point now. We will see.

Today on the commute (coming and going) to work, I had no problems at all with the shifter or derailer.

And like I said before if I can't ride fast I stay home. So it took 13.01 minutes to go the 3.52 to get to work and 13.40 to get home. Which gave me a average ride time of 16.41 mph on city roads. I was running 20 to 22 mph into a 8 mph headwind but had to many stops to get the average speed up to my normal average speed of 18.7 mph.

dynaryder, I agree.

If a bike it put together so bad that it's a death trap, then there is a big problem. As I have said and well allways say. If you buy a bike from any place (even a LBS) go over the whole bike and check it out for your self. The LBS mechanic are just people and may over look something just as well as any person might. If it's a Wai-Mart bicycle then it's up to you to adjust it. If it needs parts, then take it back and make them make it good.

It would be difficult to convert a Dinali to fixed gear use. Most fixed gear conversions use old bikes with horizontal dropouts (chain tension). The Dinali no doubt has vertical dropouts and you would spend far more on parts than the bike is worth. See here (https://sheldonbrown.com/fixed-conversion.html) for more information.


Cig: I doubt the adjustment problems with the rear are because of mountain bike parts. Cheap parts generally are harder to keep in adjustment road or mountain, though it sounds like this time the cables were at fault. I suspect that many folks don't know how to put a RD back into adjustment (I didn't a few years back). It probably leads to the summary judgement that the bike is "broken" far too often.

With all due respect, that's exactly what I see in the third photo. A minor adjustment. Loosen a 9 or 10 mm nut. Twist the pad about 30 degrees counterclockwise, perhaps move the pad up 3 or 4 mm and retighten the nut. done.

Brake pad adjustment (one is further from the rim than the other) is a trivial issue:

Even if this is a junky brake with no adjuster grub-screw (centering screw), you can simple loosen the nut on the bolt that holds the caliper on the frame, tilt the whole caliper to make it centered, and retighten the fixing nut.
I normally just grab a handful of brake lever, which makes the caliper center itself. Keep the lever pulled and tighten the nut. This way it doesn't tilt as you tighten.

Tutorial: https://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=20

I'll take that one up. I suspect that this bike will prove, with competent mechanical looking after, to be servicable. It wouldn't surprise me if a major bearing wore out in the time of the test, but hey, a BB is what, $20? So, does that mean it's "worth it"? I suppose, if you live in an area where there are no decent bikes on ebay, yes it does. On the other hand, you also speak of $75-150 bikes, second hand. These usually WILL be worth it, more so than the Denali. I've said this before, but I'll say it again. One of my commuters was free. The second cost less than $50. My road bike cost less than $50 as well. These are all 531 framed bikes with high end Shimano or Suntour kit (105, 600, Suntour Cyclone/Superbe). They would take the beating that Cigtech is putting on his bikes better than the Denali would.

So, if you're wondering, can I get a useable commuter for less than $800, the answer is yes. If the next question is, should it be the Denali, my answer is "probably not".