Keep in mind that as I am writing this, I am not trying to paint China as a modern Mecca. Like all other places, there are problems. However, I find the cycling situation to be interesting and notable. What I find notable is that there is an infrastructure built around the idea, and expectation, that people will live car free.

I went and looked at the other post that you refrenced. I am going to wait untill I take some pictures this afternoon to respond to some of the issues there except to say that there are no, at least as far as I have seen, bike paths. What there is is a lane on each side of nearly all large streets. The lane is seperated by a barrier. This lane is restricted to taxis making stops, and bicycles (and pedesterians, and darn near anything else). There is nothing to stop a rider from riding on the street, which is often done because often the shops spill into, or set up, in this lane. For that matter, there is nothing to stop a person from riding in the sidewalks other than obsticles, like parked bicycles.

Other than on the toll roads (the freeways) I have seen no restrictions on where I can ride. Some places I get strange looks (like when I lift the bike over a bicycle barrier; however, I have never been stopped. I have even had police offer to help me lift my bicycle over the bicycle barriers (I will try to remember to take a picture of one).

As far as taxing bicycles, in the US we already have that. While bicycles are not taxed (not even a VAT on bicycles) or licensed in China; in the US, most major cities require annual licenses on the bicycles. When I lived in Chico, CA the police were checking for bicycle licenses and citeing people that did not have them.

I have to cut this short (I am actiualy getting ready to go look at a new bicycle). The final comment as I get ready to go is that this is Communist China, not Socalist USA, there is no one looking out for for other people here in the manner of making laws for someone elses own good.

Probably true, but who said the LCF forum was specifically for/about Americans?

Sorry, I don't know enough about Canada to write knowledgeably about carfree issues there.

There have been many times in my life where I was car-free. It was not a goal but rather a byproduct. I either didn't need one, couldn't afford one or the opportunity to use one never presented itself much. I now own two vehicles... well one is mine (the Jeep) and the other belongs to my wife (a Saturn). We use them as appropriate. I enjoy offroad driving so I'll use the Jeep for that but for getting around town or even for long road trips which don't require us to carry a lot or go offroad, we use the Saturn. When I'm not bike commuting, I'll often carpool with my wife unless situations prohibit that. My wife's job pretty much requires her to have a car.

I don't "belong" in the Living Car Free as it currently stands. Until lately, I never realised that riding a bike to work was such a political and religious thing. I have never considered myself superior or above others who are driving to work. For me, riding was always just because it was fun and something I wanted to do. It's not about hating cars or drivers. I still don't get this attitude that one must hate something in order to love another. The issues and questions I face in my life are not true/false... most of the time they're not even multiple choice. Often they occur in essay form.

This is the first time I've heard of that being done. They talked about a registration system for cyclists here in Queensland a few years ago, it was rejected only because there weren't enough cyclists here to make it economically viable, but it was a close one. The scary part is that there were some so-called "cycling groups" actually lobbying in favour of it.

Just a thought here, speaking entirely about the car dominated countries: certainly the car 'as we know it' will be gone, but other 'cars' will replace them, perhaps still expensive cars (so there'll always be bike commuters) clogging the freeways, but most certainly they won't be petrol drinkers. All that said, technology generally is making life easier and more efficient for the vast population , I can't see as to how the vast population in the Western World would ever evolve toward the strenuous effort it takes to bike commute, or any other HPV, when we're wealthy enough to figure out how to avoid it. People are inherantly lazy, like to use their brains over their brawn. Just my take on it....

Bicycle registration/licenses aren't used where I'm from. I suppose it's a state thing?

Don't you find it strange that you are living in the environment and don't care about it?

It's not very different from the northern US.

Actually cars aren't a particularily efficient transportation system. People value them for the sense of individual control they offer, but as society has adapted to the presence of cars it's gotten very inefficient: gridlock, sprawl, oil wars...

A society re-engineered without private cars (compact, walkable, lots of public transport, cabs for the wealthy...sort of like a universal Manhattan) would actually be much more efficient.

Yes, I think I was trying to say pretty much the same thing, in the previous or following sentences. I am merely pointing out that I fear there will always be some form of vehichle which alleviates actual physical exhursion --- that by nature, our culture here in the Western World is far too reliant on technology to evolve/retrograde "back" to Human Powered Vehichles.

I personally think we need lots and lots of education in our schools, and thats a start. Somewhere on this forum I saw a saying "a movement begins with one person" (or some such thing)... that means WE the cycling advocates might consider volunteering educating in the schools? Get the youth excited about alternatives !!! Make a documentary film !!!! A new topic for discussion???

I just wanted to say that I did indeed start a new thread on this sub-topic, and for those who wish to check it out, it's titled "Facing Future"

click here : https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/238066-facing-future.html

Didn't mean that you had to be, just that the flood of "it's impractical to be car-free" or "I 'need' a car" messages rarely take into account the other 192 countries in the world. Frankly I wish all the "I can't be car-free" messages would be removed from the LCF forum. If it stayed on topic - that is about being car-free or at least trying to be - the forum could be much more useful to those of us who cheered its creation.

For example I am setting up a new office about 10km from my home office, and will be moving equipment, furniture, and records without owning a car*. THAT is the sort of conversation we should be having in LCF, if it was moderated OR if the people who pop in to post would have a less provincial attitude.

(*I use the definition of car = personal motor vehicle.)

I wouldn't day that I hate cars or driver, more "car use". How can I not hat car-use in urban centres?

We have no money for arts, transit, education, or social services, but the biggest budget items are road maintenance and construction.

We have people made sick, even dying, because of smog, yet people still drive even on smog warning days when we are asked not to by the authorities.

We have shortages, or impending shortages, or energy and natural resources, yet people still use a grossly inefficient mode of local transportation.

Etc., etc.


Every time I see a car on the road, I see someone blowing pollution in my face, while closing down a city library, and taking food away from starving kids - all at once. I can not see car use as something morally neutral, or "just a lifestyle choice". It is inherently harmful to others and thus anti-social. That's why I don't have much patience for people telling me they "need" cars. I know it is possible to build your life without owning a car, and yes, I even know families with kids who do so. I'm not naive, we have roughly 60 years of car culture to undo, it won't happen easily or quickly. It may not happen at all, I think its entirely possible that we go extinct in the next 100 years or so. Meanwhile, however, I will keep looking for ways to change the tide.

As far as I'm aware, it isn't used anywhere... yet. It's been looked into in many, many jurisdictions, but has thus far always been found to be economically unviable because there aren't enough cyclists prepared to pay a fee that would generate enough revenue to cover the administrative costs. This is the only reason it hasn't happened.

I feel like there's almost as much one-upmanship in the Commuting section. It may be subtle, but there is competition to have the best/fastest bike, the most callenging commute, to be the fastest rider, etc.

As far as negativity... yeah, at its worst, the Car Free forum has a sort of "the sky is falling" feel to it.

But some of that attitude is based on pure truth- the human population is growing as fast as ever and a huge portion of the world population is starting to earn enough to buy fossil fuel energy- energy that then won't be available support first world people's heavy use of transporation, heating, and cooling.