Scorer75

Wow, someone's cranky. Maybe a nap or a clean diaper would help, works on my two year old.

Yes, I ride a bike or bicycle if you prefer. Maybe I don't know that much becuase I only manage a few thousand miles a year.

I understand that the tube actually holds the air, not the tire. I blow the tube up, not the tire.

The reason I mentioned the tire is to raise a question. The question is as follows:

Do you think the reason armadillos lose pressure faster than other tires is a combination of:
a. higher tire pressure
b. heavier rider (230lb.)
c. Possibly forcing air out of the tire more quickly by hitting potholes, jumping curbs, etc...?

It's not the tire, I've used different armadillo tires with similar results. It's not the tubes, I've tried different brands and sizes.

One other thing I'd like to throw into the mix. I did notice better results when using a 700 x 25-28 tube versus a 700 x 19-25 tube.

Any input would be apreciated to resolve this. It's not a huge issue becuase I'd probably continue to fill up my tires (or tubes if you prefer) before my ride, but it'd be nice to know I didn't have to.

fatbat

The armadillos sure feel slow, harsh, and corner poorly. But they are about as flat resistant as they come.

I replaced my rear tire (conti gp3000) with an armadillo, and the bike felt a lot more sluggish during acelleration. No real effect on top speed, though.

I was happy when i finally wore that tire out, and could justify replacing it.

ducati

I notice this with all my higher pressure tires (typically on 2-3 bikes). It seems 110psi quickly becomes 100, then 90, then seems to stabilize a bit.

My 80psi 32c tires stay at 80psi very well.

No holes in any tubes.

Odd, I've never really figured it out either, I just pump and ride.

DannoXYZ 

Only if you have a fixed volume going into a tyre that expands. However, it won't reach as high of a pressure either. So if you pump in 5-liter of air into two identical tyres and one flexes more than the other, then yes, the stiff one will reach 100psi while the one that stretches will reach only 90psi. Howver that's not what they're talking about.

The first guy said that somehow the tyre caused his pressure to drop 10psi a day. Well, how is it that you can have two tyres, both pumped up to 120psi, and one drops 10psi a day? Casing shouldn't make any difference in loss-rates because that air has to get through the TUBE FIRST before it can escape the tyre. So the tyre that loss 10psi probably had a slow-leak in the tube itself.

Replace your tubes with new ones. Be careful and don't pinch it on installation. Pump it up to 120psi and DON'T ride it. Compare to a similar configuration that is ridden. Then repeat with different brand tyre. I don't see how a tyre on the OUTSIDE of a tube, can somehow facilitate sucking air through the rubber tube faster. It's like saying the kind of label you put on a bottle of wine somehow causes the glass to leak faster...

Also note that new tires, of the SAME brand & model WILL be slower. The used tire will have a very thin tread, which is very supple and will roll very fast (albeit not very puncture resistant). And you'll also have worn off a lot of tread and reduce a lot of weight on a tyre. So basically a worn-out tyre is close to a racing-slick, very fast. Of course a NEW touring-tyre with heavy full-tread with kevlar belts is gonna feel slow in comparison. Although I wonder how much of it is actual speed vs. feel (responsiveness)... any TT results?

DudeLove

I put on 700x23 Armadillos and, like everyone else, immediately noticed that they were freaking slow!

However, there's a big difference running them at 110psi and 125psi. 110 is freaking slow, while 125 isn't too bad. Pump em all the way up!

Lionheart

Nobody's mentioned Gatorskins, so I will. After switching to them on my commuter, I've had only one flat. And that could be directly attributed to something really hard and sharp. It would have cut any tire.

The Gators run at high pressure with a nice ride. I pump them up on Monday morning and they're good all week - no exaggeration.

gear

they are slow

robmcl

I don't know. 9 miles in 45 min is 12mi/hr compared to 9 mi/hr for 9 miles in one hour. The difference is only 3 mi/hr but it is a 25% difference. I guess the question is how much slower is slow. At these speeds even a few mi/hr can make a significant difference.

Scorer75

The current theory I'm working on is that with much higher pressure inthe tire, a heavier rider (230lb.), and hitting obstacle further compressing things, it might cause the leakage which is normal on all tires to speed up. Let's say under normal conditions air escapes the rubber of a tube loses air at x per day. Would the increase in pressure in that tube not expedite the process?

I guess I can leave the tire inflated and not ride it to see if it retains air better to test this theory.

deejay21

So - hopefully the thread has not gotten too hijacked. Last night pulled off the tires, and guess what? They were on backwards. If you look at the side of the tires, there is a little thing saying "rotation" with a little arrow - go figure. To be honest, I think that there may have been a combination of factors in my initial ride in these tires:

1) Backwards - probably one of the bigger ones
2) Previously I inflated the tires to 100psi - as it says to on the actual tire. However, a slight overinflation seemed to help out a ton this morning (~105psi).
3) I noticed in taking off the tires last night that they were a lot more flexible than they had been on the initial install - I'm guessing that a few days at relatively full inflation helped stretch them out a bit - nicely supple.

Thanks to everyone who had recommendations. And to everyone who said "it has to be you", you may want to reassess your own know-how. Durr.

rule

I'm a firm believer that if you have to ask, you already know the answer to your question.


Translation for the opinion shopper in you though: yes.

ducati

1. Backward, forwards, won't matter on a tire like this. It could slow you down a LITTLE if it was an aggressive knobby, and the forward edges were feathered in one direction but not the other. But with an armadillo? Nope.
2. 5 psi doesn't mean diddly.
3. This is very true with a tight fitting tire, but doesn't make a difference to speed.

This is not a dig: Plain and simple, it was you. You were either 1) psyched out about the "slow tire", 2) didn't get enough rest, 3) didn't eat enough, 4) needed a break from riding, etc etc.

It's you, dude, not the tire. There is NO WAY you experienced a 33% speed loss with the swap of tires. And then gained it back by flipping direction and adding 5 psi. It's all in your head. We all have ups and downs. It's the way it is.

markhr

legs you mean - lack of mora....muscle fibre that is

tibikefor2

I think that Armadillos are some of the worst riding tires that I have ever ridden. They are heavy, stiff and give a far from suppple ride. I switched to vredenstein fortezza 25s and have been happy. The armadillos added 10 minutes to my 21 mile commute.

Sawtooth

I tried my first armadillo the other day when my race bike had a flat front tire. Instead of my Ritchey OCR wheel with IRC red storm classics (cheap but light) I did my 20 mile ride with my buddy's cheap Alex rim with no-name hub and an armadillo that could not have been inflated to over 80 psi. The tire was all over the place and I actually was afraid I would roll it off the rim on high speed corners. BUT.....it was not that slow!!!! I had been flat on my back sick for 3 days and it was my first ride in as many days. Since I had been sick for so long, I wanted an easy ride but it was all I could do to keep it under 20mph. That tire could not have taken more than a minute or two off the 20 mile ride. I was noteably impressed at how little speed I lost for the flat protection gained and am considering putting them on my commuter. Moreover, that tire/wheel is used on a sora equipped bike that we use to promote road biking to our mtb riding friends who regularly take it up over 25 mph on the flats. I have found that equipment really matters when climbing or accelerating but not so much in hanging at speed on the flats.

Bottom line: we all have good days and bad days....sounds like you just had a bad one. Regardless, glad that the tire is working for you now.

Scorer75

I've run (for a very short time) with the tread reversed on an armadillo, it will not slow you down. The ride will just be slightly rougher.

To the OP, I'm not saying it's you (because everyone else already said that) but on my 17-22 mile commute I don't even see a 33% difference between my road and mountain bike. More like a 10% or even 15% difference, not even close to the 33% you are talking about.

FlowerBlossom

Deejay21: You'll have to report back on how the ride went with the arrows in the right direction.

vrkelley

I'm not sure the arrows make much difference.

ActionJeans

yep, I did the same exact thing on both tires, and yes, it slowed me down immensly. I don't remember how much, but I, much like you, pulled over, and checked for brake drag. You wouldn't think it, but yes, the tread direction, even on tires with little tread such as these, made a big difference. If I had to guess, 10% more power output to maintain the same speed.

froze

Assuming your talking about road tires: Armadillos would not add 10 minutes to anyones ride or feel like your brake is dragging; that's just psycho junk. If that was the case then Team Action Sports that won the 4 person division RAAM race in 2005 and rode on 700x23 Armadillos would have arrived a day after everyone else would have thus it would have been impossible for them to win...but they won despite of their "super slow and sluggish" tires! Gee just think, if they would have ran the race on Conti Supersonics they would have beaten the RAAM record by arriving a day before the 2nd place qualifier!!!!!

rule

When you commute, with all the starts, stops, and maneuvers, anything that accelerates and handles like a toad is going to slow you down or at least be noticable over something more responsive. Surely that's fair enough for a guy asking an honest question as it relates to commuting?

froze

Sorry but this is a honest answer; the answer is NO, Armadillos will not slow you down by more then maybe 10 seconds (and I'm being very generous) over a course of 8 miles of stop and go commuting, but a flat will slow you down a lot more! In fact no flats was what Team Action Sports was counting on during the RAAM-a race with no stopping periods to fix a flat, and that's what they got and won.

I never had any handling issues; heck I use to race guys down winding mountain roads when I lived in Bakersfield California on Armidillos (700x25) and could either out handle or keep up with them! I never noticed any real issues with them nor was I scared to push the tires limits...and I was in my late 40's running against guys in their 20's and 30's!!! That's not to say I think these tires are high performance racing tires, but on normal roads their fine.

Problem is there are some people out there who think Armadillo tires are soooooooooo slow that there is no way anyone could or should ride on them, and that just pure bull! Are they maybe a tad slower? Maybe in the larger sizes, and maybe in a race like the TDF it could mean the difference between winning and losing; but there they sweep the course before the race to remove all debris, thus flats are rare anyways and when there is they get a new rim with a new tire, so the down time is very short so using a flat resistent tire like the Armadillo is stupid.

But like you said, we're talking about commuting to work where a flat will make you late to work which is not how you impress the boss. Armadillos, though not flat proof, are the most flat resistent tires on the market thus your down time due to flats while going to work would be almost all but eliminated thus saving you time and maybe your job.

voileauciel

On my commute to campus this afternoon, within the space of 5 minutes, I hit an industrial staple and a rusty fish hook. I was able to remove BOTH objects and continue on my way. I've been checking the tire all day and there has been no pressure loss at all. Furthermore, had it not been for the scraping against the inside of my rear fender, I'd never have even known they were there until tonight!

So: Specialized Armadillo Nimbus tires = (IMHO) some of the best $70 you can spend for overall flat protection.


Cheers!
C

deejay21

OK!!!! Let me say this again for everyone who ignored my reply - I am going to assume that the significant decrease in speed was due to a couple different factors, those being:

1. Tires mounted incorrectly. I don't care what the senior members say (and it seems they have a lot to say about it), it seems to have made a slight effect.

2. Tires not properly inflated. They didn't seem to hold air pressure over the first night (please no more discussions about tubes and tires folks, just sharing my observations). After a second inflation they seem to be maintaining air pressure very well. No, I didn't change the tubes, so don't ask.

3. A little breaking in. When we first bought these tires (two sets, one for me one for the wife), they were extremely nonpliable, and I think it is reasonable that they may just take a little more breaking in (being kevlar) rather than a traditional tire. They still can be a pain the the arse to put on and take off the rim though.

4. Slight wind. I didn't realize until the other day just how much difference in speed even a slight breeze can incur.

So let me be absolutely clear as to where this is at - I think it was a COMBINATION of factors, rather than any single thing that really made that ride suck!

To be honest, I am growing to really like the Armadillos now that they seem to be working to my expectations. They are a slightly more supple ride (on 28c wheels anyways) than my previous tires, and only slightly slower (about 2%, barely even perceivable). To be honest, I what enjoy most is not having to weave out of the way of every small piece of glass on the road. And to be clear, there's TONS on my commute.

Would I recommend Armadillo tires? You betcha - but with the caveat that in order to really enjoy them you have to give them a chance to break in.

Scorer75

Good follow-up.

I wouldn't put any stock in the junior vs. senior member since I'm a eior member (yay me!) and I have no idea what I did to become one.

I'm on my second set of armadillos and other than a curiosity to try the Continental Gatorskins, I'd stick with these forever. Great tire. Also, if you are not happy, Specialized has a "lifetime" replacement or refund policy. So, ultimately, if they don't work for you, you can return them.

Good luck.