Rich Clark

As has been established, we don't.

Most people choose to, because it can make life easier and it's useful in an emergency. I'm sure this is just as true in the UK.

RichC

ngateguy

That is true there is no law requiring us to carry one with us, in fact it is a constitutional guarantee; but try and get through life without one. Reality is that you need them to get jobs, bank,cash checks, get into bars, on airplanes, on buses and trains now also. You can be detained if you violate the law(any one major or minor i.e they detained a "person of color" last year for jaywalking and had no ID) and do not have proof of ID, until proof can be established. So yes we do need to have an ID.

Rich Clark

Georgeupstairs appeared to be making some sort of distinction between what we "need" in the US vs. what they "need" in the UK.

My point is that thre's no difference.

Quibbling over the definition of the word "need" is not really germaine.

RichC

georgeupstairs

All I can say is, reading what's been posted, the way people from the US who have contributed to this thread feel about the consequences of not carrying ID is very different from how I feel about it.

Rich Clark

Does this extend to law enforcement? Do you think a police officer who stops you for, say, running a red light should be required to take your word for your identity?

Kinda depends on what you're doing.

In any event, I'm not disputing your right to feel how you feel about this. I do wonder if you really speak for all of your countrymen, however, as you represent ("here in the UK we don't"). The debate over proposals to issue national ID cards is no less heated in the UK than it is here. If everyone there agreed with you, there's be no debate, would there?

RichC

ngateguy

Rich, I cannot think of a time that anything had total agreement so there is always debate. It is our constitution that we will not be required to carry identification. This is not true and you can be arrested if you do not have one granted you have to violate a law but as I mentioned before our police here in Seattle detained a "person of color" (thats how the paper put it) a couple of years ago after this person jay walked. If you are riding as a passenger in a car now days you will need to produce ID so they can check your background,even though you have done nothing wrong. This type of thing happens on a daily basis. Our country has been quietly turning into a police state for years now. ANd now with the national ID, and of course the un appropriately named Patriot Act they are going to wave 9/11 in our face in order to accomplish it

Rich Clark

ngateguy, in a country governed by "rule of law, not rule of man," it's important to know the difference so that abuse can be identified and resisted.

Yes, of course there are frequent abuses of power, by the police no less than by others in authority. That's why knowing the law is so important; when someone is arrested due to racial profiling, such as the case you cite, the (often unpublicized) result is frequently a civil (if not a criminal) suit that ends with the municipality paying damages to the person whose rights were illegally abridged.

Laws like the Patriot Act are particularly insidious because they prey on people's fears in order to get them to voluntarily give up their rights. That's very similar to tactics used in other countries that ended up becoming totalitarian states. One reason so many of the people of Germany in the 20s and 30s accepted National Socialism was because they were afraid that the rest of the world would swallow them up if they didn't unify.

I'm heartened (and our British friend georgeupstairs should take careful note of this) by the fact that more than 115 state and local governments in the US have formally responded to the Patriot Act by passing resolutions calling for its repeal, by passing resolutions reaffirming their committment to civil liberties and the Bill of Rights, or by other means. This includes state legislatures like Vermont, Hawaii and Alaska, and major cities like Philadelphia and Seattle.

I'm not British, so I can only go by what I read about the social and political climate in the UK. Based on that, I would dispute the contention that fear of terrorism (which has been a daily reality there much longer than it has here) has not had a similar effect, both on the behavior of law enforcement agencies as well as on the general populace's willingness to put up with "temporary" abridgements of their rights, in the UK as it has here.

RichC

Dchiefransom

I think we've also missed an important point, not just about ID. If they don't know who we are, and we are unconcious, I believe (could be wrong) that they will only go so far in treating us medically. Beside ID to show who I am and notify my family in case of accident, should we carry permission for medical treatment? If they suspect we have a cognizance problem from a head injury, would the medical community take our word for treating us for non-life threatening injuries? Any medical types out there?

SD Fixed

Need: No.

Your bike works fine with out it.

Required: No.

But deal with the consequences if you do not.

Should you?

Only if you're concerned about your well bieng, and less concerned about some political statement.

caloso

Good point, William Karsten. You can carry around an ID and make it easier for the EMTs and ER docs to figure out who you are, or you can stick to your freedom lovin' guns. I'd rather be a thoughtful husband and son than a constitutional martyr.

I also write on my running shoes my name, ph. number, blood type, "no allergies", and "I am an organ donor." My wife thought it was freaky until I explained that I did it for her peace of mind.

ngateguy

you know there are othwer ways to id yourself for medical emergencies, and I am not standing on political grounds because I do have an ID I was just pointing out that you cannot get through life with out an official ID

greywolf

I dont carry my drivers lic. when riding my bike ,just on the principle, the only time I drive is at work so I keep it at work . I have my name, blood group & home phone # written inside my helmet + I carry my work photo I.D card & money cards with me.