Speaking of nonsense, my favorite line from the Porteur site:

The French already make better wine, love, intellectuals, and freedom fries than we do. Can't we at least be patriotic enough to say that our 26" wheels are more real?

Then again, the French have already adopted our 26" wheels. Given our constant state of cultural war with that country, perhaps it is only patriotic that we convert to 650b. I can see it now:

My country tis of thee/Sweet land of 650b.

I wanted to use 590 rims and tires, the same size as the ones that came on my 1966 Columbia.

It was guys like Heine and Petersen who wanted to the use 584s.

I'm all for taking blame when its mine. But I have to pass on the 650B thing. Not me. Not at all.

When I said that I wanted to re-introduce real 26" wheels, I meant 590s.

650B? Nope. Not my idea. Not one little bit.

Ask anyone.

Is the Silly Season early this year? Bike makers make bikes. If ya like da bike, buy it. I got my wife a 650b and she loves it. I may do the same for myself next year.
Even if I can't, I badly want to.

650b makes for a nice bike.

Ya done good.

What bothers me is that you designers always want to introduce different size wheels.

Why not different shapes? It's always round, round, round.

Why not think inside the box for a change?

I built up a Bleriot last week and have been using it primarily for commuting and city riding. Coming from a 700 x 23 scandium/carbon road bike, the Bleriot is a dream for the kind of riding I do every day. It floats over uneven pavement, train tracks, gravel, dirt, grass, etc. I put a rear rack on it and have used Ortlieb front rollers, which have had no heel clearance issues at all-- every other bike I've used them with I've ended up bumping my heels. It's tremendously stable, comfortable and nimble. An 18lb. road bike still has its purpose in my stable, but the Bleriot is more practical for commuting, bike camping, or just carrying stuff.

Why get your panties in a wad about a wheel size? Don't like 'em, don't put 'em on your bike. Problem solved. As for me (and apparently a lot of other folks), they work well. The whole bike cost me under $1,500, which is incredibly reasonable for any brand new Riv!

That is beautiful, dude, and I mean worthy-of-riv-reader beautiful.

Let me try:

My 26" wheels bound like plump gazelles, carrying me confidently and comfortably over obstructions both evil and jagged, and set me down near cool waters. They restoreth my soul.

I can't tell how much of your stuff is tongue-in-cheek, so let me just say this: I'm aware of maybe half a dozen "factory" 650B bikes, with perhaps another half-dozen custom makers. It would take all night to list the makers of 700c bikes, and I'd still miss most of 'em. So I, for one, am very glad for the handful of folks like Matt and Grant who are going out on a bit of a limb to ressurect something that never stopped being worthwhile.

FWIW, Matt and I have had a few back-and-forths on the Kog board because he hasn't yet built a frame I think is absolutely perfect. He keeps nibbling around the edges, but there's always a deal-breaker. The P/R, for example, is perfect in most ways, but that damned sloping top tube really takes away from the overall appearance, IMO. Maybe it's a CPSC standover issue or something equally obnoxious. Regardless, the point has always been that it's my choice to buy his stuff or not. If I don't want 650b, it's not as if there's nobody out there making a 700c bike.

So Matt, got any 61s with 25mm trail forks available at the moment?

You forgot to tell us how easy it is to "plane". Gotta love Jan, but I still have no idea what he's talking about...

Amen to that. I'm glad I'm not the only one. I read that damn article in the last BQ three times before I just shrugged and decided I'm simply not sophisticated enough.

Nope.

And the 61s that are inbound now are all spoken for.

We do have some 59x700C sets coming soon (the current order is split into two pieces).

And there are some 64x700C sets coming in the next order. No telling when they will arrive
- the Taiwanese are apparently up to their eyeballs in orders. I can relate.

After thinking about it, I think the 650b tires are a non-issue, at least for me. I generally order a bunch of tires at one time when I find them for sale or a good price. So if I got a Bleriot, I would probably just order enough tires that I wouldn't have to worry about it. I also use folding tires, which would be easy to pack if touring.

However, I still don't understand why Rivendell put cable guides on the downtube. I thought Rivendell was the huge proponent for all things retro. Why design a frame that can't handle downtube shifters? Even weight-weenie carbon frames can handle DT shifters.

If you want a guess, I think Grant knows his customers. There is a Bleriot forum on Yahoo, and it was never an issue there that I know of. Most people are going to use barends or brifters these days.

I don't ride 650B's and probably never will (since I'm 6'5" and ride 68cm frames). But the logic behind the argument against 650B due to potential unavailabitlity of rims, tires, etc. makes no sense to me. QBP carries the stuff so any bike shop can get it for you. You can use a 26" tube in a pinch and the likelihood of needing a tire or rim on anything but a cross-continental ride is pretty slim. Folks like to offer the "Well, if I'm riding across Tanzania and cut my tire..." argument but the fact is they're probably never going to do that. If you are, bring a tire with you and you'll be fine.

Well. So much for those plans, I guess. Any idea when/if another batch will be available?

Because the frame shop we use in Taiwan has been doing such a bad job of keeping to schedules, I have suspended making any predictions about arrival dates.

I think that there's a bit of a bike boom going on and that we're all feeling the pinch.

Heh heh, okay. I hope it's keeping you in champagne and caviar, or beer and sushi, anyway. You're obviously filling a hole in the market. Guess I'll just have to keep some cash in the bank and an eye on your website!

Pancho, I hate playing the straight man. I'm more Gracie than George Allen. It's just that the bike world has so much whimsy, especially when people want to sell you something, that I sound like Dr. Phil. You asked about a bike for commuting and touring. You can use any bike for either purpose. Commuting is especially well-suited to deviations from any norm. You're probably near a bike store, and that store can buy what you need,and you take the bus until the UPS truck comes.

But you don't have want to lose precious time to bike problems when touring, and so you buy gear that is not only durable, but common. And maybe you feel the same way about commuting. Kogswell says 26/700 vs 650b is like welding vs brazing, or threadless vs threaded. But frame problems, even stem problems, are nowhere near as common on tour as wheel/tire/tube problems. To the greatest extent possible, you want to be able to walk into the lowest common denominator box or hardware store and buy crap off the shelf, because that may be the only store at hand. And I'm not talking Tanzania. Maybe the can't get it until Friday, make that Monday, and is this silliness going to force you to take a motel room, and the nice person who you met on the road has decided to go on without you because she bought a new tube at Wallmart or Mama's Grocery. Try to explain to her the glory of 650b.

It would be different if you already owned the 650b bike. Then you make do, with whatever you got, and haul extra tires/tubes etc despite the weight. But you're looking at buying a NEW bike, and so you think differently. Basically, the pro-650b arguments here boil down to a cause: let's bring back another wheel size. I actually think that is a good cause, choice is good. I just think the people who should make that choice viable should be people with bucks to spare. Rich people should order millions of extra 650b bicyles, tires, and accessories until we're all wearing berets, smoking Galloises, and reading Combat.

Until then, 26" is really an awesome tire size for commuting and touring. And 700 if not 26.

With 700c and 26" offering such a variety in tire widths and whatnot, I fail to understand why there needs to be another wheel size. I've ridden 20" (my folding bike), 26", and 27" tires plenty, and I see that wheel+tire weight makes some difference to the bike, but as far as I'm concerned, the actual wheel diameter (independent of weight) doesn't matter for beans.

At least no one is making a 650b mtb. Now that would be really silly.

It's funny that these (really great) bike designers urge us to be practical, to think of fender clearance for example, but somehow get all romantic about the French wheel. I think these desgners are great because they meld style and practicality.

Sorry to digress...but "Quickbeam" reminds me of a frame I wish Riv had put its energies into making instead--a Quickbeam-style 26" mtb that could take a suspended fork. I think that could have been a (relatively) popular model among the single speed mtb crowd.

Don't forget, Soma also makes a very nice looking lugged road frame with fender and rack eyelets. Tange Prestige tubing and polished (or chrome?) head tube lugs, no less. And they also make a TIG cross frame that would great for touring and/or commuting. So much so that I'm thinking about getting one if I can't find an old used touring bike soon.

Update - decided to pick up a second-hand Kogswell P58 for just under a grand (seems to be the going rate). True that only 150 were made? Seems it will allow some light touring, longer rides (longer than my single speed bomber and errand bike), and centuries with style. I'm not sure why Kogswell stopped production. *Almost* picked up a Bleriot while in the Bay Area, but was happy enough with my recently cleaned-up 1965 Raleigh Sports at the time to fend off the temptation. Now I can get two bikes for the Bleriot (which is a great bike)!

Currently trying to get a hold of Matt at Kogswell about securing one of the black 59x700c P/Rs, if I can hide the purchace from my wife with creative accountancy. Building it up slowly (if I could stand it - I want to use a vintage sturmey-archer 3speed hub) would spread the cost out and I'd have a very, very stylish commuter and heavy tourer by Christmas.

Matt - you out there?

I've been thinking about a Kogswell P/R since they were introduced. I like the idea of a bike which is designed to handle a heavy front load, and Kogswell offeres the frameset at a heck of a good price. But the wheel size makes me leery. Kogswell is doing a run of P/R frames with 559(26 inch) wheels, but only in a larger size. If the 53cm was available with 559s, I would buy it in a heartbeat.

I'm not even sure the French themselves think that much of the 650B wheels, except maybe a few post-nostalgic eccentrics just like here in North America. I mean, why bother reviving sizes that became redundant?

Someone comes from a 700 x 23 scandium/carbon road bike and then says the Bleriot is a dream for the kind of riding they do every day. Well, of course, coming from a bike like that, a Bleriot would seem like riding on air. But if you compared it more to a more sensible (not racing) road bike with decent-sized tires, the only difference would be that it would feel like you are riding in melted asphalt. I don't know what this fascination is with wider tires. For average weight people, the sweet spot balancing comfort, durability and performance is probably 28mm, and even 25mm wide tires for the lighter end. If you want a bike with such big tires, then get a hybrid or a mountain bike. You want something like a Bleriot? Go find yourself a mid-80's steel diamond-framed mountain bike at any cheap inner city used bike place, and swap the bars. There you go... instant Bleriot-like bike, except the wheels are the readily available 26 inch kind instead of the 650B.

By the way, fries are really Belgian, not French.