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traffic & sidewalk use question

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Old 10-12-07 | 12:49 PM
  #26  
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On my commute there is a 3 mile section where my only option is a shoulderless road that is VERY busy with a 45 mph speed limit. For 2 miles of it I take the sidewalk. Peds are rarely on it, and I go slow around them, and I don't have an alternate route. I think sidewalks are fine as long as you keep it slow-ish and stay conscious of things.

Funny story to add, too: The other day I was riding on the sidewalk and there was a ped zombied out on his ipod, taking up the whole path. I checked, no cars coming, so I bunny hopped off the curb behind him into the lane. His ipod obviously wasn't loud because the noise made when I landed made him jump about 5 feet into the ditch on the side of the pathway! I felt pretty bad, but at the same time I was really doing him a favor.

Ride the sidewalk now, ask questions later!
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Old 10-12-07 | 01:33 PM
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Use the parallel street, and give the drivers in a hurry one more reason not to cut through a residential street at a high speed. I live on a street like this- about 3 car-widths wide, usually cars parked on both sides, so one clear lane up the middle. Anything that slows the traffic down and reduces the too-fast cut-throughs is fine by me- and probably is as well to the homeowners/residents on your parallel route.
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Old 10-12-07 | 01:45 PM
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I'd probably split between the sidewalk and neighborhood also. If the neighborhood street had a good surface it would be first choice.
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Old 10-12-07 | 01:52 PM
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SIdewalk, dude! or as I call it, "The Bike Lane".
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Old 10-12-07 | 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by allan6344
I'd probably split between the sidewalk and neighborhood also. If the neighborhood street had a good surface it would be first choice.
I have a part of my route where I go a half mile down a parallel street to avoid the street AND sidewalk on this piece of particular road. Road has very narrow lanes and has ALOT of semi traffic. The sidewalk is driveway riddled and not the nicest surface.

I have another part of my route where I use the sidewalk to go over a bridge and through an underpass that is an entry/exit to an interstate. This area is always backed up, narrow lanes and semi riddled. Needless to say, I'm VERY careful, VERY aware of my surroundings, make sure that I'm seen by motorists and expect the unexpected.
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Old 10-12-07 | 02:45 PM
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In that situation I'd probably opt for the parallel street.

Sometimes when I take a certain route home I am riding along in 3 lanes of stopped or slow moving cars and I have to turn left after about 1/2 mile of riding through this area so I just take the right lane and then get over when traffic slows to a crawl and filter. I ride a road bike with 42cm handlebars so I can fit through some pretty narrow gaps.

The sidewalk would be my last resort...actually, it wouldn't even be a place I'd consider riding at all.
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Old 10-12-07 | 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by mikepoole
Use the parallel street, and give the drivers in a hurry one more reason not to cut through a residential street at a high speed. I live on a street like this- about 3 car-widths wide, usually cars parked on both sides, so one clear lane up the middle. Anything that slows the traffic down and reduces the too-fast cut-throughs is fine by me- and probably is as well to the homeowners/residents on your parallel route.
I wrote a very similar reasoning. It is streets like this that neighbors fight for speed humps and traffic calming to reduce the number of cut thrus. I wouldn't ride centerish to make a point for cycling advocacy, but instead for neighborhood advocacy. When I need to motor I also drive thru places like this at or below speed limit and watch for kids and cyclists.

Streets like this are used by cut-thru motorists and now cyclists are advocating locally for door zone bike lanes. That is the wrong approach - that will just put cyclists in a dangerous location and allow motorist to go even faster. What needs to be advocated for is zero tollerance enforcement for 25mph speed limit.

Al
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Old 10-12-07 | 03:23 PM
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Definately the sidewalk !
Cyclists are trained that sidewalk riding is bad for
some reason and think whatever that badness might be it
applies to all sidewalks everywhere just like whatever works
for their commute in California should work perfectly for yours in NYC.
Nothing is absolute. If you need the sidewalk, use it. You are obviously
an intelligent and aware person, the hypothical horrors of sidewalk riding
will not apply to you.
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Old 10-12-07 | 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by -=£em in Pa=-
You are obviously
an intelligent and aware person, the hypothical horrors of sidewalk riding
will not apply to you.
Since riding on the sidewalk is illegal in most states i would say this is bad advice.
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Old 10-12-07 | 03:58 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
I wrote a very similar reasoning. It is streets like this that neighbors fight for speed humps and traffic calming to reduce the number of cut thrus. I wouldn't ride centerish to make a point for cycling advocacy, but instead for neighborhood advocacy. When I need to motor I also drive thru places like this at or below speed limit and watch for kids and cyclists.

Streets like this are used by cut-thru motorists and now cyclists are advocating locally for door zone bike lanes. That is the wrong approach - that will just put cyclists in a dangerous location and allow motorist to go even faster. What needs to be advocated for is zero tollerance enforcement for 25mph speed limit.

Al
Well put. I happen to live on a street that impatient commuters like to try to use as a short cut. I have no qualms about taking the lane and doing a little impromptu "traffic calming."
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Old 10-12-07 | 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by zoltani
Since riding on the sidewalk is illegal in most states i would say this is bad advice.

None of the many Ive ever been in. In fact...on PGA Blvd in West Palm
on part of my route in to work, there is a ped stop sign ....on the sidewalk !!
Really....Its not a section I use, but people do. In the this area of FL, if you see someone
on the sidewalk, its because they use the sidewalk !
In otherwords, they are not dead
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Old 10-12-07 | 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by -=£em in Pa=-
None of the many Ive ever been in. In fact...on PGA Blvd in West Palm
on part of my route in to work, there is a ped stop sign ....on the sidewalk !!
Really....Its not a section I use, but people do. In the this area of FL, if you see someone
on the sidewalk, its because they use the sidewalk !
In otherwords, they are not dead

whatever, i cannot win this arguement
it's like trying to convince wrong-way cyclists that they should go with the traffic.

your safety is not the only one to think about
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Old 10-12-07 | 05:06 PM
  #38  
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The way you describe it there, I'd go for the sidewalk. Keep speed way down and watch for cars turning into you.
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Old 10-12-07 | 06:53 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by littlewaywelt
three lanes in each direction on the main road that gets tied up.
I have similar road (2 lanes in each direction) on my morning commute. You'd be surprised how much room there is to filter between the lanes, even with heavy truck and bus traffic. If it gets too tight, I just wait for people to inch along or the light to get things moving - since the lanes move at different rates it breaks up the narrow spaces. Just watch for the side mirrors and you'll be fine.

Originally Posted by littlewaywelt
on the parallel road it's probably three and a half cars wide, but cars park on both sides of the street. Getting two cars going opposite ways means someone has to pull to the side.
If the drivers are accustomed to pulling to the side and waiting for another to pass, they should be prepared to wait to pass when you are taking the lane. That's a very different situation from taking the lane on a street where there is room for 2 cars to pass.

All things considered, I'd pick the side street unless it was too dark at night to see the rough surface well.
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Old 10-12-07 | 07:20 PM
  #40  
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deserted sidewalks are fair game, imo. I'm not out to teach motorists a lesson on what roads they should be using and what speeds they should be driving at. If the parallel street sucks, too, use the 'walk. people get their panties in a bunch because they think you might run over a ped. when in reality the peds are few and far between in some cities, esp. in the west.

ps you REALLY don't want to ride the sidewalk going against traffic though. trust me, I have scars that prove it.
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Old 10-12-07 | 07:49 PM
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Filter. You don't like it when they pass you close because they could kill you. That's not the case when you are passing cars closely.
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Old 10-12-07 | 08:19 PM
  #42  
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Since riding on the sidewalk is illegal in most states i would say this is bad advice.
In general I stay off the sidewalk and I would probably go for the side street (option 2) for the OP. That said, I also ride the sidewalk 1 mile each way every single day commuting. My other option is to ride the right lane against the curb of a 5 lane 45 mph road in the dark.

Some facts:
1. I will never in a million years get stopped by a cop for sidewalk riding in Detroit no matter the law....99% of cops think that is where I belong.
2. There are no pedestrians or cyclists in metro Detroit. 99.9999999% of our hugely fat population drive everywhere.
3. When I'm riding the walk, I just drop it down three notches and cruise at about 12mph. I'm just as aware as all of you the risk of traffic crossing the walk without looking and I take it into account.

Fundamentally I ride in the street and I'm glad my route to work is so accomodating for the 11 miles where that works. Faced with challenges though, take the sidewalk, take the other street, take whatever works.
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Old 10-13-07 | 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rando
I'm not out to teach motorists a lesson on what roads they should be using and what speeds they should be driving at.
To be clear I am not really out to teach motorist what roads to use - I am out to enjoy cyclings, get from place to place safely and effceintly - if as a side effect it helps with neighborhood street calming advocacy, that is great. If I am using a 25mph posted road that has many other cyclists on it at the same time, I feel no issue using the full lane which I do to avoid the door zone. If I am moving at 15mph I'll move over in long gaps between parked cars and let faster vehicles pass, but if I am traveling at 25mph, I'll stay in the lane.

The street I am talking about is Alameda. During rush hour its a bypass for Southern & Broadway. I may see up to 20 cyclist per mile at this time and some motorists are going 23-25mph, but there is alway one impatient idiot wanting to go 35mph+ and I feel no reason to let them, after all they will be stuck behind the next motorst going 25mph of which there are always a few.

As you are probably aware, Tempe is looking at putting bike lanes, curb bulb outs with separated bike lanes, more speed humps, etc. along Alemeda to help reduce traffic volume and speed. I think a better solution is to enforce the SL and have cyclists use the lane instead of riding in door zones where the current plan is to place the BLs. If more cyclists today avoided riding in the door zones there would be fewer cut thru speeding motorists.

Al

Last edited by noisebeam; 10-13-07 at 08:31 PM.
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Old 10-13-07 | 01:30 PM
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yeah I see your point. Alameda does not need bike lanes, anyway... I wish they'd "improve" another road that needs it.
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Old 10-13-07 | 04:10 PM
  #45  
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I don't filter up on the right if there is no bike lane. Lots of reasons why, but some would just call them opinions, so I won't go into ti.

In your position, I think the best thing to do is use the side streets. Let the impatient cagers have their way. Sidewalks can be very unpredictable, and offer a shorter visual distance at driveway openings. That's how alot of kids get hit.
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Old 10-14-07 | 06:05 PM
  #46  
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I would take the sidewalk. I do the same thing on my commute home. I ride about 300ft of sidewalk because the road is too narrow, and I don't feel like inconviencing the cars. It's no big deal for me. If there are pedestrians then I just take it easy.
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Old 10-14-07 | 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by noisebeam
Option two. Longer traveling motorists should not use neighborhood streets to cut traffic. They will learn it doesn't buy them any time trying to use this short cut.



Or modified option one which is to filter to the left of the line of cars, if this is possible.

Al
here is my route
https://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path...munity-college


I use the backups due to needing to get over the SR101 right during rush hour.

I deal with the same problem yet the second option is painfully slow and I still need to use a major road road to get over the frikin highway anyway.

I can usually wait a light cycle and get by on the second one. What is a few mins.
if not, I filter on the left , more so if it is a empty left lane I just take it since I am moving faster than traffic.

Last edited by wheel; 10-14-07 at 08:06 PM.
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