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Originally Posted by M_S
(Post 5538185)
What we need is tolerance, of course. Not that I'm the best at it myself, but at the end of the day we're all just dorks riding around on bicycles, right?
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Originally Posted by M_S
(Post 5538185)
Likewise I've gotten into weird conversations with people who are solely transportational cyclists. I have no interest in driving (though it's easy to be without a car as a college student) but cycling is both my primary means of transportation and pretty much my favorite pastime. So I often find myself bridging the somewhat awkward gap between those two groups. I'd build myself a fixie, but that would only complicate matters ;)
Now, I just can't really let it bother me. I like wandering over to the bike shop and oggling the multi thousand dollar machines I can in no way afford, and I very much enjoyed the time I spent at the local co op yesterday stripping donated bikes. What we need is tolerance, of course. Not that I'm the best at it myself, but at the end of the day we're all just dorks riding around on bicycles, right? |
I am a "forced" commuter. Uncorrectable vision problems prevent me from getting a driver's license. There is definitely a stigma associated with being an adult transportational cyclist. The assumption is that any adult who can drive will choose to do so. There must be something wrong with an adult who chooses to use a bike for transportation. The weekend racer types are excluded because the jerseys and race bikes designate them as sporting or recreational riders. Only losers use a bike to get from one place to another. It's a common stereotype.
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Originally Posted by The Historian
(Post 5537976)
I agree with you that the phrase "bike culture", when used by a cyclist, often translates to "the sort of cycling I like." |
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 5539243)
Same qualifier usually applies to the posters who refer to themselves as Serious, Real, True and/or Competent cyclists and everybody else is some sort of lowlife or inferior cyclists.
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Originally Posted by lil brown bat
(Post 5539409)
Fall is here and it's strawman season! Beat that strawman! You go!
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Originally Posted by lil brown bat
(Post 5539409)
Fall is here and it's strawman season! Beat that strawman! You go!
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This weekend, the local news reported on a collision where a "homeless man riding a bike" was struck while trying to cross a 4 lane blvd during the middle of a sunny day. They went on to state that charges against the driver "not likely" due in large part to how the cyclist was riding.
I'm thinking this guy was not part of the "bike culture" mentioned in the OP. This is why I posted in favor of the DUI bike training and why I am in favor of community outreach to teach cycling safety. I'm not trying to be a puritan ninny, nor do I think I ride 'the right way' and everyone should do as I do. I want less people to die due to ignorance. I realize people will still make mistakes and do stupid things, but they shouldn't pay the ultimate price because no one took the time to show them that there is a safer way. |
Originally Posted by M_S
(Post 5538185)
, but at the end of the day we're all just dorks riding around on bicycles, right?
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Originally Posted by Sparky005s
(Post 5538529)
I am a "forced" commuter. Uncorrectable vision problems prevent me from getting a driver's license. There is definitely a stigma associated with being an adult transportational cyclist. The assumption is that any adult who can drive will choose to do so. There must be something wrong with an adult who chooses to use a bike for transportation. Only losers use a bike to get from one place to another. It's a common stereotype.
There is on the part of some bosses the fear that a bicycle may be less reliable as a means of transportation though. I had one such boss. He had 4 animators under him. Two rode bicycles more than 9 miles to get to work, and two drove about a mile to get to work. One day he came into my work area looking for the two drivers. Neither had made it to work, but both the bicyclists were there. I quipped that he should only hire bicyclists with a long ride. ;) He never said another word about bicycle commuting. And it may be that I don't see the stigma because I commute by bicycle voluntarily. So when people ask, all I can tell them is how I enjoy the ride and let my enthusiasm speak for itself. I become almost a minor celebrity; when co-workers see me on the road they wave to me or tell me later that they saw me. Other co-workers are even inspired to start bicyle commuting when I project a positive image of bicycle commuters. :D |
Originally Posted by lil brown bat
(Post 5539409)
Fall is here and it's strawman season! Beat that strawman! You go!
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I am definitely in the minority it seems. I see bike etiquette FUBAR's occasionally. When I do encounter one on the road, I go around, just like I would if they were riding properly. I never feel the need to testify, preach, or praise the merits of "PC" riding. It's so infrequent that it's actually quite meaningless to get worked up over.
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Originally Posted by capejohn
(Post 5539938)
I am definitely in the minority it seems. I see bike etiquette FUBAR's occasionally. When I do encounter one on the road, I go around, just like I would if they were riding properly. I never feel the need to testify, preach, or praise the merits of "PC" riding. It's so infrequent that it's actually quite meaningless to get worked up over.
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 5540048)
Only in a minority if "bike culture" is to be made up of self righteous BF Brand Safety Nannies, self appointed bicycling experts touting their "right way" to ride a bike, and advocates for bicycling "education" schemes. All of whom seem to get worked up over imposing their bicycling standards on everyone else.
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 5540048)
Only in a minority if "bike culture" is to be made up of self righteous BF Brand Safety Nannies, self appointed bicycling experts touting their "right way" to ride a bike, and advocates for bicycling "education" schemes. All of whom seem to get worked up over imposing their bicycling standards on everyone else.
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Originally Posted by The Historian
(Post 5540324)
I take it you feel the same way about Mothers Against Drunk Driving for trying to impose their "standards on everyone else." Have another beer, ILTB.
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Originally Posted by Mr. Underbridge
(Post 5540328)
As opposed to the 'self-righteous Forum Nannies' like you, whose sole mission in life is to tell people what they can talk about.
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Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
(Post 5539430)
Read the OP Jack!
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Originally Posted by CVB
(Post 5526657)
Maybe the better question is not it"are these people to blame for the poor image of cyclists" but "Why don't cycling advocacy groups do more to educate these people on proper cycling safety and help them find suable yet affordable bicycles to use for transportation?"
For instance, a cycling advocacy group could team up with the local court system to provide information and even donated bikes to folks who lose their licenses. Similar things have been done to get drug addicts and alcoholics into rehab programs. |
Originally Posted by donnamb
(Post 5531883)
Wow. I've got so many thoughts on this subject, it's hard to know where to begin. I'm the office manager of a community mental health clinic. We also provide alcohol and drug treatment. About 70% of the clients at the site I run are referred by the criminal justice system. I'm lumping DUII offenders into this percentage. Sometimes the 2 populations are the same and sometimes not. We are an area that also has a very good (for North America) public transit system. We have 2-bike racks on all our buses and bikes are allowed on our light rail trains with no peak time restrictions. This allows for bike-public transit-bike commutes quite easily. Also, if you are currently receiving mental health and/or drug & alcohol treatment with a licensed provider, you are considered as "disabled" by the public transit system, and are eligible for tickets and monthly passes as a large discount. The agencies certify this, and we only do it in periods of 30-90 days unless the client is considered disabled by Social Security. This prevents people from abusing it if they leave treatment.
In the community, there are 3 not-for-profit bike shops that have resources available for low income people. They don't really care why someone doesn't have a car or why they cannot drive. They just want to be available to help them use a bike to get around and do what they need to do in their daily lives. One of the organizations has a great, comprehensive program for "creating" bike commuters. You can also get free lights from them if you are in need. The other 2 shops have stands available outside, some tools, and usually someone around to offer general advice. We've also got this nonprofit "bike school". They organize beginner pleasure rides, offer classes and repair stand time at a sliding fee scale, and have mechanics that freqently go to events and offer free bike maintenance. I see bicyclists from all walks of life at these places. As for DUII offenders specifically, I know there is a partnership in the works between the city's bike people, the county courts where DUII cases are handled, some social service agencies, and some non-profit bike organizations to help address the barriers DUII have to deal with. They're applying for grants now. A scenario that often happens is when a DUII offender goes before the judge and tells them they can't get to work because they can't afford a bike lock (we've got a major bike theft problem in this area), lights, the cost of public transit, etc. In the past, judges who really don't know anything about the matter would often grant hardship licenses and the offender would possibly drive drunk or high once more. With a community partnership like the one they're envisioning, the judges have received training and information about the issue. Instead of granting a hardship license, they're hoping for the judge to say tough cookies to your request to drive to work, hand over a lock, a set of street legal lights, a package of bikeway maps, and an order to get your rear end over to your DUII treatment provider to get certified for the discounted transit passes. As for me personally, I'm doing the one thing I can do as an individual - I never say no to a client who wants to bring their bike into the clinic because they don't have a good lock. Now that we're phasing out paper client charts, I will soon have space specifically for the bikes instead of having to stuff them wherever there is space in our cramped office. :) M |
In states where a bicycle is defined as a vehicle -- yes. I'm not so sure about those that define it otherwise. Although 'Public intoxication' is always in play.
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So many of which show public intoxication on a bike too. Sooner or later they become the squeeky door and create rules for us. If not now... later.
V |
Wow, I had no idea this topic would get so much attention...
First of all, I feel I owe some sort of apology to you, I-Like-To-Bike. I understand that I could have worded my ideas better, and I'm sorry if I've offended you in any way. I agree that there's an excessively large amount of bike-snobbery out there, and it is not my intention to contribute to it. Maybe be just a little more forgiving of little old people like me? You must have known it was not my desire to insult anyone. And thanks for your two cents Neil :) In my admittedly short bicycling experience, I realize I don't possess the knowledge to start saying what's what. The intention of the article was not to preach my own opinion, but simply to get passioned and thoughtful responses to the topic, the kind I've been reading for the past few minutes as I discovered my article was three pages long. I'd like to say that I'm now a more informed person after looking over what all of you have had to say, I've had an opinion or two, or three, or four changed. Thanks for posting! :) |
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