That's all fine, but good leather saddles aren't cheap and don't like getting wet much. They also don't help if you end up needing/wanting to ride another bike.

If you're really opposed to lycra shorts/tights with a pad you can certainly find alternatives but I don't find it so repulsive that it must be avoided at all costs.

FWIW though I do like merino wool socks in the winter - soft and toasty.

Stand in the parking lot of your local Whale-Mart and observe the "aesthetics" of the female form in lycra...just be careful that your eyeballs aren't burned into oblivion by some of those "soft curves" waddlers.


Remember, folks:

Lycra - It's a Responsibility, Not a Right

I don't think this material debate is about appearance or looking like a racer. I'm researching what I should wear through my winter commutes right now, and synthetics are a viable option. Synth tights seem appropriate because jeans won't keep out the wind and long johns under the jeans get soaked quick and I can't stand the cold-outside-profusely-sweating-underneath feeling - it just feels like having a fever to me. Blech. That said I'm going to stick some cut-off shorts over them lycra pants because I'm a beanpole and I'd rather not have others gazing at the exact shape or lack-thereof around my upper thighs.

If I just wear regular work clothes for the ride, it gets really bulky once I have to stay warm through a windy 20 degree commute even if it is only 5 miles. But then dragging my day's wears along with me in a backpack and changing in the bathroom at work is kind of a pain in the ass.

I wear those wicking tops in the summer also. Cheap and good. Maybe use those as the base layer?

Also, here-here on the synthetic stink factor. Geez. I'm not even a big sweater compared to some dudes I know, but you run around in those things for 15 minutes and they're unwearable until washed again.

So who is really happy with their winter commuting setup and wants to share? Charles Vail - never heard of a merino wool shirt, but the idea of wool against skin sounds pretty itchy to me. I'm curious.

As soon as one of them is on a bike in lycra shorts I'll worry about that.

Base layer: REI brand MTS mid-weight long underwear and long-sleeve top
Performance Century Gel bib shorts over base layer
Windblocker tights over bibs
Performance Tundra II fleece lined long-sleeve jersey
Smartwool socks
PI Cyclone gloves
Sporthill microfleece hat under helmet
Bellwether No-Aqua booties if it's really pouring rain

PNW winters are more about keeping warm in the rain, not in sub-zero temps. I was getting just as wet sweating inside my rain gear as I would from not wearing any, so I switched this year to just keeping warm and saying 'screw it' about getting soaked.
I've ridden in rain into the low/mid 30s and I haven't been cold at all.

Look for "Merino" wool. Not as coarse as the type or wool you're thinking of and not itchy at all.

I keep my work shoes at work and haul the rest my work clothes with me. Some people bring a week's worth at once. Kind of a pain, yep but I tend to ride hard and get plenty sweaty even in below zero weather.

I'm constantly experimenting with clothes but generally I'm pretty comfortable. Gear for my coldest commutes looks like this:

1. Wool socks - maybe 2 pair
2. Regular shoes
3. Thermal tights + wind breaking running pants
4. Sugoi Thermal Base layer. - forget what it's made of but it's awesome
5. Fleece pullover
6. Bright yellow shell from old Columbia system jacket
7. Skull cap
8. Thingy that covers my neck, mouth, and nose
9. Ski Goggles
10. Helmet
11. Gortex Gloves

In the near future I'm going to get a balaclava (sp?) and I'd like some really good windproof bibs/tights but I'll probably wait for a year end sale.

Haven't had the experience that synthetics are any more stinky than wool.

You should check out the winter riding forum. Clothing is a constant topic of discussion

A basic Black or Honey colored B-17 is only $70 and will last for years. I'll bet most of those plastic name brand saddles cost at least $50. If you are a commuter and you have no fenders then your saddle will get wet. Saddle covers cost about $15 but you can also make your own. I've ridden my leather saddle in pouring Pacific Northwest rain storms and have never gotten them wet. With fenders and a cover its never a problem. I personally have three Brooks saddles and the family has two more so I guess we are Brooks fans. I probably won't need to buy another for the rest of my life.
I have two pairs of Lycra shorts but I don't use them anymore and prefer wicking sports stuff with no pad and regular baggy shorts or pants. I do have some non padded wool tights but only use them on long cold rides.
Wool rocks....expensive though and it takes a little more care in washing/drying but its not that bad.

It's all where you want to spend your money I guess. I know there are many people who swear by leather saddles and others that don't like them at all, -even when properly broken in. Even among their fans I'm sure there are many who still ride with padded shorts if for no other reason than cycling shorts are designed to keep the seams away from places where they would be irritating to a cyclist.

Check out
www.Rivbike.com
They have some good info on practical clothing and they sell some wool stuff too.

I'm currently using a newly purchased Merino wool zip top, wool unpadded tights or sweat pants and I just ordered some MUSA "cycling pants" from Rivendell. For socks I have Carhartt arctic 90% wool socks and another pair of 88% wool socks that I wear under them. I use Teva sandals down to about 38-40 degrees then I switch to regular skate shoes or ankle boots and wool socks. I wear a ski cap and surplus Air Force glove liners. I use wicking sports undies from Walmart or if the ride isn't long, I just wear regular cotton. I have shorts and bibs but the padding gets bunched up and its uncomfortable to me. If I could fit in my old wool shorts with genuine chamois I would wear them but the moths have gotten to them over the last twenty five years. I have a rain jacket purchased from Lands End that was made for sailing and it works perfect for cycling. Lots of zips and Velcro, along with pit zips, a hood and a longer tail. It only cost $70 and is a nice soft yellow color not that limey yellow/green bile looking stuff. I know about the visibility angle but its truly ugly to look at and be seen in that color. I have an old MSR hard shell helmet that serves as my winter helmet but I don''t give helmets much credence since they aren't that effective IMHO but thats another subject entirely. I'm switching to a Bell Metro soon if it matters. Thats the extent of my cycling wardrobe with the exception of an occasional flannel shirt thrown in over the wool zip T or a down parka vest if I happen to be wearing it. For short trips I don't often make special preparations as to clothing but for anything over 5 miles I do. I have ridden in my wool slacks, a tie and dress shoes if that makes a difference but the ride was only 2.2 miles so it wasn't even a ride really. Cyclists with an open mind will probably find more clothing options that they can ride in if they try them, even for all out sweaty workout rides although that isn't the only way to ride. Hope this helps.

I am. Below freezing:
Champion brand wicking performance base layer top and bottom
Windbreaker
Cargo Pants
Seirus Thermax balaclava
Full-finger cycling gloves (or mechanics gloves, they're all similar)

Below 20F:
Add some lenses (sunglasses, safety glasses) to keep the wind off the eyeballs
Replace thin gloves with cheapo ski gloves

Below 10F:
Replace lenses with ski goggles
Add a pair of socks
Add a hoodie under the windbreaker
Add another layer of pants (thin flannel pants work nicely)
Keep a headband with me, my ears can get chilly through one balaclava under 10F.

Below 0F:
Ditch the headband
Ditch the flannel pants
Ditch the windbreaker
Ditch the ski gloves
Add second balaclava
Add sweatpants
Add full winter coat
Add thin knit gloves inside big, fluffy mittens
Use two layers of wool socks

Give or take. That was last year. I was fine down to our minimum temp of -3F. This was for a 7 mile round trip. Also, I'm about 50 pounds lighter this winter. Given riding style, distance, metabolism, and a bunch of other factors, some cyclists get hot and sweaty easier than others.

Instead of taking clothing recipes from other cyclists, I recommend experimenting and logging your results. Log wind, temperature, your clothing choice, and comfort of your decisions. Make sure to jot down any gripes or discomfort. Adapt and adjust as needed.

Sounds like a (mis)fit issue to me. One of the main advantages to cycling-specific shorts and bibs is that they don't get "bunched up". It sounds like yours are too large.

FWIW, if I'm riding to the grocery store I'll generally wear cargo shorts with Andiamo cycling briefs underneath. But if I'm going more than 15 miles or so, a good pair of cycling shorts is best for my bottom.


As for the Briicks saddles...I've never experienced any discomfort using modern, lightweight saddles and cycling shorts/bibs. Plus, they weigh a ton, and look out of place on most modern road bikes.

You also asserted earlier that manufacturers are making chamois thicker...that's definitely not the case. Modern chamois are thinner than they were a few years ago, with variable thicknesses of material strategically placed for maximum comfort and wicking of sweat (unlike the old leather chamois, which did nothing to wick away moisture).

A brooks on my tarmac would look silly. I wouldn't even put one on my fixie.
Plus, my bottom hates them. Specialized toupe FTW!

I will second SSP that chamois are generally thin nowadays. The exception would be some of the cheap shorts seem to have a thick chamois.
Heck, look at long distance shorts with a small increase in padding. You will hardly see a difference between those and regular shorts.

Lycra is so much more comfortable, but I don't want to see myself in it. I wear cargo shorts over them, sometimes for warmth, sometimes just for style.

Just curious...why?

swallowclassicside.jpg
This is a Brooks.. I'd love one on my fixie.
But then I'd ride it with a kilt, like I ride my Heron (which rocks a Brooks B17 Champion)
to each their own.

Why do you want to know? Just trying to show some humilty, that's all Wearing only lycra makes me feel like a poseur, as I am not a racer, nor am I even that fast. Cargo shorts also provide places to store stuff, and in the winter, keeps the legs warm. More about function than fashion.

Given that you stated that "Lycra is so much more comfortable", I was just wondering why you'd choose not to wear it.

Some possible reasons that came to mind include:

• Embarrassment due to looking "different" in lycra
• Embarrassment due to body image issues
• The need to present a "professional" appearance at work
• Or, since you're in Colorado Springs, perhaps the fear of attracting the attention of sex-crazed meth-snorting fundamentalist ministers.

re: storing stuff - the rear pockets in jerseys work pretty well for that.
re: staying warm in winter - tights work really well for that.

No, no, no, I wear lycra beneath my cargo shorts. I appreciate the function of lycra, I'd just rather not look like I'm a club cyclist or something.

LOL on the Haggard comment!

It all boils down to the simple fact that not everyone likes to or wants to wear the damn things.

You're not going to convince anyone to switch any more then they can convince you to wear normal clothes to ride, so why keep trying to analyze it?

I wear lycra to hide my overwhelming Freddishness.

Ahhh...now I get it.

I wear Andiamo padded cycling briefs underneath cargo shorts when I'm going to the grocery store or running errands around town.

But, when I commute (14 miles r/t), or when I'm out training or riding for fun, it's lycra only. As a shaved-leg club cyclist and sometimes racer, it suits me both fashion-wise and function-wise. YMMV, of course.

My warm weather commuting garb consists of a pair of brushed nylon climbing shorts that have no seams in the critical areas, an inexpensive running t-shirt, and Shimano sandals. If it cools off enough here in Texas then I break out more cycling specific gear. Cycling pants (not tights, but snug), cycling vest and a long sleeved running shirt. I own lycra, but I prefer the other for my commute. After all the sandals look a bit funny with the tight shorts and jerseys.

I've never considered the weight of my saddle to be of any significance since my entire bike with me on it weighs over 290 pounds. The difference might be less than a 1/2 %. Of course the looks thing I suppose could affect my comfort so........
Leather breathes unlike plastic,carbon or vinyl or whatever they make modern saddles out of. I suppose that is why I have never felt the need for any extra stuff to soak up sweat. It would seem to me that less rather than more material would transfer moisture faster but who knows. I've ridden on a few non solid leather saddles and all were uncomfortable, either immediately or within about five miles. The first time I rode a Brooks I was instantly in the comfort zone, even unbroken in.
My Bibs are probably too big since I had to buy a bit larger to fit my beer gut and overly large thighs and tiny but muscular cyclers butt. Those things just suck even though initially they were alright comfort wise. I don't know, I think its all hype and marketing to cyclers to make them think they will go significantly faster using them. Whatever floats a guys boat I guess. I just haven't found the need to wear the stuff and don't particularly like it.

Nobody mentioned one practical benefit of lycra: muscle support. Similar to how athletes used to put ACE bandages over muscles he/she is having issues with, especially basketball players with hamstring problems. Cycling and compression shorts allow us to have that support in an easier to use manner.

Another thing, I was brought up to believe if I have a problem with how I look, or how anyone else looks, I'd better stay in the house.