In my business there are people who more focused on the mission, and there are people who are more focused on the bottom line. Both see one as aiding the other to different degrees. I imagine it's the same for those involved in the making and selling of cycling goods.

So I would guess that there are those who really care about making a good bike for commuting. And I would guess that there are those who just want to make something that sells.

Please furnish a program so I won't have to guess who those caring marketeers are who are making the "good bike for commuting" and who is making the commuting bike that sells but is no good?

I believe that's what the OP attempted to do. At least he listed what he feels the good choices are.

Is there an overriding point to your posts, or do you just like to be contrary?

It's OK either way. Sometimes I just like the debate too.

Thanks very much for pointing this out, I appreciate it very much. I made 2 corrections and will check with Schwinn to find out what the actual brake spec is on the Coffee/Cream.

Oh yeah, I do like to debate with the Group Thinkers mired in their own Conventional Wisdom about Real Commuting and Serious Cyclists. Unfortunately they prefer to ignore the argument and instead seek only discussion that is the equivalent of electronic group hugging.

I think I made the point that a far less expensive bike than the very nice bikes suggested by the OP would be just as suitable for the typical short distance commuter or utility cyclist. These bikes (simple one and 3 speeds with fenders, chainguards and kickstands) were at every bike retailer until the 70's when they were dropped like hot potatos for the latest marketing fad. Reintroduction and promotion at the department store outlets of those old fashioned low tech bikes that I previously mentioned would greatly expand the availability of bikes that were seen as practical for the intended purpose to the vast majority of the public (who choose never to set foot in an LBS.) Or have set foot inside an LBS and saw nothing that seemed to be worth their money for their intended purpose and everything they could desire if the intended purpose of a bike purchase was to ride in a peloton on the next club century ride.

I don't think the bikes you get from Target or Walmart today are as good as the bikes that Sears sold 30 or 40 years ago. We used to buy cheap bikes for our kids figuring they'd only use them for a year or two before they out grew them, but no more. It's not like the frames are going to suddenly disintegrate or anything but the assembly is so shoddy that we've had things come loose or come off both of my son's first bikes while he was riding them. I've seen bikes on display at Target with their forks on backwards. I've seen neighbor kid bikes with their forks on backwards.

If you're mechanically inclined and give a 'Mart bike a good going over before anyone rides it, they'e probably workable, but I'd hesitate to recommend one who expects a problem free ride into work several times a week.

The next step up from a 'Mart is a sporting goods store and that might be a good compromise between LBS and 'Mart except that I only see MTBs and Hybrids sold in those places.

I do agree that a 27 or 30 speed bike is probably overkill for a short commute and may be undesirable for anyone who doesn't really get bicycle gearing which I suspect is at least 70% of the public. A nice 1X8 would work well for them. Personally I don't think a 3 speed offers enough gear selection to be very helpful.

[QUOTE=tjspiel;6111712]I don't think the bikes you get from Target or Walmart today are as good as the bikes that Sears sold 30 or 40 years ago. We used to buy cheap bikes for our kids figuring they'd only use them for a year or two before they out grew them, but no more. It's not like the frames are going to suddenly disintegrate or anything but the assembly is so shoddy that we've had things come loose or come off both of my son's first bikes while he was riding them. I've seen bikes on display at Target with their forks on backwards. I've seen neighbor kid bikes with their forks on backwards.

snipQUOTE]

I don't think that's what ILTB-2 was saying.

The quality might be worse, but it's the features that make a bike useful for transportation. If Wally World offered bikes with appropriate features, I agree that others like LBS's would follow suit. It's flat out amazing that they offer such inexpensive bikes up for mountain biking, which have lots of features for that. I bet they could offer up a decently equipped transportation bike for $100 if they wanted. Even a single speed would be nice, if it came with fenders, a rack, kickstand, and bell. It would be useful for students. But they don't.

They're fake features though, put there for show.

My biggest problem with this conversation is the idea that people are hoping for walmart to solve the problem. And the refusal to admit the low-quality, disposable nature of their products.

Yes, they could make and sell anything they want to. They choose not to though, which is exactly the reason I do not go there.

And just so ILTBeanelitist doesn't have to say it... yes, I AM too good to shop at walmart, and take pride in the fact that I refuse to support them.

And the LBS' are full of bikes made to order for you (and your similar thinking comrades); just not for the majority of the public who might be interested in a simple, relatively inexpensive bike for typical bicycle commuting/utility activity. But that's OK, your needs are taken care of, eh?

Target at least does sell cruisers with fenders and chain guards. It looks like they have eyelets for racks. I've also seen them at bike shops.

My impression from ILTB-2's postings is that he's not terribly concerned with what's sold an LBS because most folks don't get their bikes there anyway.

To me reliability is key to anything used for transportation as opposed to an occasional ride in the park. That's what worries me about 'Mart bikes.

FWIW, here's the "commuting" lineup from the LBS I usually get my parts from:

http://thehubbikecoop.org/itemlist.c...=63&startRow=1

Adjusting for inflation, the Bianchi Milano would have cost about $80 in 1970

Most people don't shop at LBS for good reason, the products available on the showroom floor and promoted by the sales staff don't meet their needs. I would like very much if LBS offered bikes similar to what could have been found until the 70's at any LBS in the US and still is found in Europe. But the LBS retailers have abandoned the market for bikes that they are not interested in selling, just like US manufacturers abandoned the market for small economical cars (even high priced luxury models) to the Aisian companies. At least the US car retailers don't push their potential customers in the market for "undesirable" small cars to Walmart or the department stores; the US branded dealer offer the small cars by partnering/buying the franchises for the small car manufacturers and don't let the customer leave without showing some kind of product of interest.

Background info:
I bought my 1972 Raleigh Sports 3 speed at a Philadelphia LBS new for $82; bought a new 1976 Raleigh Superbe 3 speed from another Phila LBS for $142. Obviously they would be cost more in 2007 $$ but much less than the product displayed in the OP and with no sacrifice in quality. I bought ( in 2000 or 2001) my current commute bike at a German department store for DM 286 (the equivalent of $135 at the time) equipped with Sachs/SRAM seven speed, coaster hub, front hand brake, full fenders, chainguard, kickstand dynamo lights, bell, and rear rack. I now have over 25,000 all weather miles on it. Commuting bikes do not HAVE to be high priced to be GOOD and Reliable for commuting. The last bike I commuted on in Germany (for 3 1/2 years) is similar to my current bike but equipped with a Sachs Torpedo 3 speed rather than 7 speed cost DM400 ($215) in 1999 at the local Opel Dealership which had a small bike sales shop inside. Still use that one for around town, still an excellent bike for around town. Seems every German commuter, cycling in the city, of all ages and sizes, rode similar bikes. On the weekends the club riders would make their appearances on more flashy rigs outside of town.

I too have noticed and ranted about LBSs in America verses say Oulu, Finland... where the latter carried a nice range of bikes including Trek and Marin, but the floor was full of daily rider bikes that were built to be ridden daily and take the abuse... AND they came ready equipped for day to day rigors... having built in headlights, fenders, locks and baskets... the most expensive of which was 485 US dollars... and it had every bell and whistle.

BTW there was not a bit of lycra available in the shop... Helmets they did have. So often today in American LBSs, the first thing you confront is a huge clothing line, and behind that, "plastic" bikes.

There are quite a few desirable commuting bikes on that web site, and priced right too. Is there a good selection of those models on the floor of the shop? Unfortunately I think your LBS is a rare breed. I have read of a few other LBS that actuall ypromote the sale of such bikes, but not many. Hopefully they are not all special order at your LBS with a long wait time and used as bait to sell available product that the salesmen are really interested in.

Perhaps our wise Forum members can inform us if their LBS also have a similar selection of reasonably priced full fender, bikes designed for city commuting actually on the floor ready for sale?

Well... I'm an unwise idiot. Here is my two cents.
The answer is....
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no.

I frequent a few fairly large LBSs in the Denver metro area.
It does not bother me since I prefer to add my own accessories. For others I think it would be a nice if they did stock a few affordable models outfitted like a commuter. Whether they would sell or not is the real question.

To be honest I haven't noticed because it's not the type of bike I drool over. I go there for parts and to see what's in their "salvage yard". I'm curious now and I'll stop by sometime this week to see. It wouldn't surprise me if they did have those models on the floor because the place is run by, and caters to, people who live on their bikes as opposed to weekend warriors. That's why I like it. Pretty much the first thing you see when you walk in is a wall filled with racks and bags.

Even so, I suspect not many people buy the "commuter" bikes. There are two people in our neighborhood that own cruisers. Both were purchased for reasons of fashion and image rather than utility. One of the folks bought a pink and white one with white sidewalls because she likes the retro look. The other person likes the Euro look of his and rides it wearing a twead jacket and flat cap.

Neither bike is ridden much more than a few times a season from what I can tell.

Cycling is a popular in Minneapolis and there are LBSes all over the place. This one and a couple of others are geared more towards the transportational cyclist. Others have their own niche markets. If a city has a healthy number of commuters, there's more likely to be an LBS set up to serve them.

On their main page is a "news" section talking about a new line of commuter bikes coming this spring. There's a couple of links and one of them takes you here. The smaller pictures of the bike in action are taken in an area that happens to be along my commute.

I think I would like that shop too.

How much do you think those models, especially the Rohloff equipped one, will cost?

That route hardly looks like the kind of route that justifies that kind of high tech (presumably high priced)bike except for the bonus poseur points and bragging rights for upscale choosy commuters like some of our pals on BF. I have an old Columbia 3 speed that I picked up for $5 at a garage sale (with good tires no less) that would be ideal if theft was a consideration along that route. ;) My wife's $5 1960 AMF Hercules 3 speed should also handle a route like that quite well.

I'd guess those bikes will be pretty spendy and the only upside I can see for those with less disposable income is that these bikes may make the whole genre more popular leading to less expensive models and technology trickle down.

A traditional derailleur is fine with me but an IGH is intriguing for winter riding. I don't think a 3 speed would really do it for me though.

As far as the route goes, Minneapolis is pretty flat in general. However, there's a hill not far from those pictures which leads up from the river into town that leaves me puffing pretty good.

I like the list that the OP has put together! However PUHLEASE use another picture on your Website that doesn't show you riding on the wrong side of the road, on the sidewalk, without a helmet :eek:
http://kentuckybicycling.com/2008-commuting-bikes/

When I was ready to bike commute (before learning about this forum), I thought to myself "what would be the best all around bike to do the job". I wanted a bike with fenders, chain-guard, lights, rack, bell, gears, pump, etc.

I didn't consider buying from a big box store. I researched options and came up with the Trek T-80. It came fully loaded out of the box for $599.

I posted a picture on page 2 of this thread (but no-one even commented on it) so I'll post it again. ;)
http://www.braveathena.com/images/t80.jpg

What this bike has done for me is; caused me to lose weight, lowered my blood pressure, and blood sugar. I ride most days of the week throughout Maine winters, and have started to ride longer rides on the weekends. I think the price was a bargain for what I got. If I had to do it all again knowing what I now now, I'd probably go for Harris Cyclery's Bianchi San Jos8 Nexus-equipped road/touring bicycle. But that would have cost me significantly more than the Trek. I don't regret the purchase AT ALL (I love the bike). The closest thing I see to it now is the Bianchi Brillant (priced similarly as well).
http://kentuckybicycling.com/wp-cont...llante-400.jpg

I consider myself the average Joe when I was considering bike commuting. I wish every bike manufacturer had at least one similar product. If so, this country would be a better place. If people bought these entry level, fully loaded bikes and got "hooked" like I did, then people will be back in their LBS's looking to upgrade when they figured out their preferences.

For the spring I'm going to be blowing the cobwebs off my 1982 12 Speed Bianchi to use as a faster commuter. After a couple of years, as a present to myself, I'll probably get that San Jos8!

Thank you to this forum and the OP for compiling these bikes on a single page!

I think nobody commented on it because it needed no further comment. ;) It's got just about everything that someone would need.

Except that it is a trek, has flatbars, and is about butt ugly.
Besides that it is perfect. :p

Sure there are. I do have to say that I have not seen a single multi-speed hub in the entire country. If you can get past that point, there are a tremendous number of commuters, both good and bad (and the bad is very bad). There are a lot of single speeds and people tend to ride slower.

As far as the bike shop in Yreka, CA... no, no commuter bikes (but he will order just about anything). For that matter, I really do not recall seeing any in Ashland or Medford, OR (the nearest large town).