Like I said apart from the OP's piss poor thread title appears to mis-represent his personal choice of bikes he may like to ride while commuting as an overview which it clearly is not.

Agreed

I strongly disagree with that. People "over here" commute on everything from FS DH rigs (legs of steel), suicide fixies, triathlon bikes, hardtails, pashley delivery bikes, brompton folding bikes, catalogue store mountain bikes, recumbents, bmx bikes, etc. Please let me know where to find the typical commuter as, at least in the UK, while you may like to say that there is an average there are very, very few, if any, people at the average point.

...and you know this how? Handlebar height is whatever you choose to make it and is completely independent of handlebar type.

That depends almost entirely on leg power and you know it.

What are you talking about? My "commuter bike" of choice is a 700c/drop bar/disc brake bike. With that in mind how can I never experience that on a "commuter bike"?

I've used various rental bikes but, yes, I did dislike the constant rattling, postion, lack of leverage and poor braking enough that I'd never willingly pick the same style if there was another, different choice. There may be better options out there but, so far, a 700c/disc brake/drop bar commuter bike is my best option.

For example, Dutch bikes are barely visible in the UK (flat-ish) but have a strong presence in Holland and Denmark (both pancake flat). Does that mean the UK is misguided for not choosing dutch bikes as the average? I suggest that in Holland and Denmark long established manufacturers have captured the market with cheap, mass produced bikes. The market in the Uk and, most likely, the US is both much larger and much more diverse hence the diversity in "commuter bikes" as shown in the pictures thread at the top of the forum. Again, there may be an average but there are very few people at the average point.

I apologise if you've mis-construed my meaning. Please read my posts again. The OP's piss poor thread title is narrow minded. His choice of bikes is his own and, in my not so humble pinion, in no way represents anything other than a few bikes he may like to ride. It's not an overview of "commuter bikes" at all. His personal preference for commuting has it's place but hardly represents the "average commuter bike".

I don't understand what you are talking about? Please check the commuter bikes pictures thread and let us know where you feel the "roadie bent", whatever you mean by that, is?

I can. If "commuter specific" means gets used (and enjoyed) for a regular commute then I absolutely love my drop bar/700c/disc brake commuter specific bike. I'm sure other people love their suicide fixie commuter specific bikes, FS MTB commuter specific bikes and so on.

Good for you, apparently you chose the bike that you felt would best fit your circumstances and went from there. I did the same thing and chose a 700c/drop bar/disc brake commuter bike. Many other commuters did the same thing resulting in the proliferation of different commuter bikes.

As I said before the OP's piss poor thread title is narrowminded. His choice of bikes is his own and in no way represents an overview of commuter bikes.

I agree with thdave, but obviously "we" don't see things the same way those "other guys" (who never have seen the "roadie bent"/arrogance on this list.)

BTW, I look at all the pictures of dropped handlebar road bikes (as well as some other type of trendy bikes) displayed on this list and it tells me how unrepresentative the BF posters are of the commuting population; they look like the last things I ever saw many commuters use in Philadelphia, Chicago or Germany (exception being on weekends.) Of course I am aware of College students and low income workers, and am not focused only on those who are suburban based club cyclists and their friends.

They're not. ;)

Heck Dave, you and I live only about 40 miles from each other and our commutes are as different as night and day. You are pretty much in the city with a nice paved MUP for much of your route that is under 10 miles if I recall, while I am out in the country traveling 25 miles to a small town over narrow roads with no shoulders for the most part and drivers doing 45-60mph. Your Breezer is perfect for your commute, my touring bike - with rack, fenders, lights, etc., is better suited for mine. Of course I do like to use the road bike (the only bike I have without fenders) on those nice summer days, and this time of year I cut down my commute by driving part way and riding the rest on the flat-barred, studded-tired, fendered snow bike.

I don't consider such things like lights, racks and fenders as only for 'commuter specific' bikes, rather I consider the lack thereof as only for 'racing' bikes. ;)

Do you mean that any bike with drop bars is a "road bike"? If so, how would you categorise John Tomacs world cup drop bar MTB?

http://www.btt.com.ar/foto/o/11/29/1...frodrop300.jpg
http://www.ciclismetordera.org/fotos/tomac.jpg

Also, not having done a count, there appear to be more pictures of other types of bikes in the pictures thread than, by your definition, just "road bikes". I ride a cyclocross bike which is, by nature, an off road beast - that it happens to have 29" (which are 622 etrto which are 700c) wheels and drop bars hardly makes it a "road bike".

It's a versatile bike, i.e., one size fits almost all possible situations and conditions I'm likely to meet in London while cyclocrossing, off roading, commuting, road riding, touring, racing, training, etc. That's what makes it so great.

Why not take a camera out and and use the pictures to start a thread on "commuter bikes" actually being used on a street near me? Then we can judge for ourselves if there is an "average commuter bike".

Nice looking commute!

yeah :rolleyes: I was being pretty obtuse :p

I am intrigued by the ongoing discussion and appreciate the comments! Just to re-contribute: I very much agree that any bike can make a great commuter, as I said on my (apparently controversial!) 2008 commuting bikes page.

I also said on the page that the type of bike I wanted years ago (fairly upright riding position; fenders, lights, rack, other conveniences as part of package) was not widely available in the U.S. Now, it is! -- a whole market segment has sprung up offering this type of bike.

I think this is great, and interesting, and I think it's safe to call this segment "commuting bikes." (Or at least -- I thought it was.) I freely admit that I made some fairly arbitrary distinctions in order to keep the page manageable, so I guess I grant that the choice of bikes was my own. No offense intended, "piss-poor thread title" notwithstanding! :)

It is always healthy to reiterate that someone doesn't need a fancy bike to commute on, in that sense I wholeheartedly endorse what markhr is saying.

Fair enough - apologies for going off the deep end. Glad it's cleared up and thanks for coming back to your thread.

If I drank I'd do the kiss and make up, let's go out for a beer, drink loads of beer, have an argument, have a brawl, have some more beer, express our undying love for each other, have more beer, pass out, wake up, wonder if the blacksmith in my head and dog turd on my tongue have anything to do with the missing front teeth and black eyes I seem to have :D

As I don't I'll just have to say ride safely and feel free to blow holes in any of the, potentially many, piss poor threads I create ;)

I still think it is --

You can commute on any bike, but that doesn't mean that any bike is a "commuter bike".

Put a downhill rig, a TT bike, and a Breezer against a wall and ask someone to say what each bike is designed to do.

A commuter bike is a bike you commute on. See my signature! :p

So what if it has the dual purpose of racing crits, single track riding, time trials, etc.
If it works use it. If it doesn't, get a more appropriate bike.

Ah, but you wouldn't take a Breezer crit racing, down some singletrack, or on a TT, will ya?

That's the point I'm trying to make.

However, commuting is not a specialized activity. The others are.

This has got to be a terminology problem since few are following my impeccable logic!:)

There's the superbeasts, which naturally includes Chipcom, as he was previously decorated with super powers a while back, who travel 25 miles on their bikes to their jobs, and then there's nerdy dudes like me and Pee Wee Herman who hop on their fancy bikes complete with windmills and tassles hangin' out the ends of the handlebar grips, riding down short MUP trails to their jobs. I presuppose most are like me but many say otherwise. I guess it's possible that there are so few of us in total that a goodly percentage are like Superchip. I dismissed it earlier.

Perhaps I'm talking about Utility bikes. Not really sure. But the bike category the OP was discussing is well equipped old style Dutch bikes. Great for short to modest commutes or errands, while wearing everyday clothes. My bike, for the most part takes on the function of a car (even though I own two of them they are generally used by my wife and my kids). Regardless, the OP's post is a good one and I enjoy his website. His list of bikes is of great interest to me, in that if these kind of bikes catch on we could make a dent in this car-centric world of ours. I can't imagine many Pee Wee Herman types like me gettng on board Chipcom's style of commuter bikes to go 25 miles to work. Yet, I can imagine lots of everyday folks getting off their fat arses in everyday clothes and getting on a Breezer style bikes and tooling around, doing small tasks and losing some weight. Yeah, I know most say get a bike like that out of the dumpster for this, but not me. There are plenty of safe neighborhoods in which you can park a bike and go in a store and come back out to your bike, assuming you locked it in a nominal way. These bikes are lots of fun.

BTW, Chip, I had a heck of a ride in today. Rocky River was over its banks in spots and the road was closed due to the river flood. As you know, there's been lots of rain lately. Yet there was a fresh coat of snow and ice on everything. I rode the MUP and enjoyed the snow crunching under my studs untill I noted that I was riding through some puddles right into a raging river! I turned around and went on the road for that part of the ride. Later, on another section of the MUP where the road was also closed, I wondered why it was since there wasn't much water blocking it. That's when my bike started bouncing--the MUP and road, it turns out, were covered with sand and muck, all formed in wavy ridges, that were an inch or two high. This went on for a while. It was kind of awesome. It's amazing how much water (and sand, twigs, and the like) goes down a river.

You missed my point, rocket scientist! :p My point is that while the bike geometry, riding position and components may be different for different types of commutes (mine compared to yours, for example), such things as fenders, racks, lights comfy saddles, bags, etc. are (or should be) standards for any bike. It's those that think the cycling world revolves around stripped-down racing bikes that are narrow-minded. Just because my commute is long, doesn't mean I don't have a bike that incorporates most of what should be basics. (Though, I gotta admit, in the summer it sure is nice to hop on the road bike and go, no lights, no fenders, no rack, not lugging anything more than small seat bag and a water bottle. Now, if it were only a little flatter, I could lose the gears too! ) Any bike can be a utility bike...as long as it provides YOU with utility. ;)

I'm all for being a contrarian, but let it go. When someone says "commuter bike" you instantly get an image in your head and it isn't of your Dura Ace Equipped, Titanium, Seven. Yes, you're free to commute on whatever you like and it may even work better for you than a "commuter bike".

The fact is that "commuter" is a category of bike that is manufactured just as "racing bike" and "touring bike" are categories. That's not to say those bikes are only good at those tasks or that you must have those bikes to perform those tasks. Sheesh.

LOL

Tis my opinion so shove off. You are not going to change it no matter how incorrect your "opinion is".

My opinion is that your opinion is correct.

(apply your sig to that statement... :D )

Weird.

Not a very good choice for commuting, but "it could be used for commuting" if the cyclist is so inclined to make pretend he is John Tomac, or perhaps is one of those commuters (I read so much about on BF) who commutes dozens of miles each way up and down mountain sides. Yeah, its just the ticket for those "commuters."

LOL
My head just exploded. :p

Anyhow, an opinion is neither correct or incorrect. It is just that, an opinion. I was wondering if someone would pick up on that.

It's like that Star Trek episode, where the boys are being held captive by a race of androids, then they decide to get free by short-circuiting them with illogic. After doing a bunch of odd things, like Spock and Nimoy playing air violins, Kirk declares, "I am lying."

The chief android goes, "If you are lying, then it means that you are telling the truth... but if you are telling the truth, you are saying that you're lying, which means that you're lying.. which means that you're not lying, but... *bzzt* ... telling the truth... which means *bzzZ* that you're lying... whi... saaihA&#&(#QHA("

Yes, I remember that episode. God help us all!

This is really a really bizarre conflict on the "commuter bike" forum!

Anyone can ride to work on any bike even a unicycle, as they please!

However, walk into any LBS and ask to see (or order) their line of "commuter bikes" and guess what they will offer you... The same bikes (or versions there of) as the OP has on his 6 mile Website, without batting an eye!

My biggest problem is his... picture of himself, sans helmet, on the wrong side of the road (in N. America), on the F#$@ing sidewalk.

Like it (or not) the Netherlands style bike, is what is considered a "commuter bike".

These bikes come from the factory with:
fenders &
rack (or at least braze-ons)

With optional:
chain-guard
kick stand
built in lights
pump
bell/horn
integrated lock
internal hub

They can have:
drop, or straight bars
rim or disk brakes
internal or external hubs
Made of steel, or aluminum

Most people (in N. America) who even consider commuting to work on a regular basis are going to do so in less than 10 miles (one way). There are people on this forum who commute more than that and are exceptional! I commend them!

But this remains a silly argument.

Signed, the guy on a butt ugly Trek T-80 :) Complete with factory: lights, fenders, chain-guard, rack, pump, kickstand, bell, straightbar, integrated lock, & 24 speed derailleur... All for $599.

Someone grumbled about upright riding position being "hard on the back". I'm just not seeing it. I rode my freaking 36" unicycle all over the place when I was in college, and my back always felt great afterward, better than after a ride on my utility MTB. Let's see, that's a cycle with no suspension, no frame flex possible, with a perfectly upright riding position in which you -cannot- come out of the saddle if you expect to remain above the cycle. Sorry, not buying that people will have back trouble just because their crank is forward.

Remember that some people are just becoming aware that they can use their bike for some of the trips they would otherwise need a car for. They are not bike savvy, they want to go into a shop and have something that's more or less appropriate to their needs rolled out in front of them. Eventually they may BECOME bike savvy, and then might start looking for something more suitable, but for now they just want a bike that goes, doesn't make them dirty, and carries some stuff.

:D:D:D

Since you don't drink, I will have one for both of us! No worries. I wish you a safe ride as well.