Iltb-2. Got a little chip on your shoulder? Why the anger? I don't understand why you continually make snide remarks about lycra-clad cyclists, racing bikes, etc. Nobody is forcing you to wear lycra or ride a racing bike. Bike shops by and large offer what sells. If there was a huge market for your vision of commuter bikes, somebody would be selling them because it would make them money.

Your arguments remind me of people who rail against GM and other car-makers for selling SUVs. Although I abhor SUVs, car companies are in the business of making money. They make what sells, so the American public at large is to blame -- not the car companies -- for all the SUVs on the road. There actually is a wide selection of excellent fuel-efficient vehicles offered by various car companies, and they are starting to sell much better now that gas has gotten so expensive.

The same is true for commuter bikes or bikes with practical features like eyelets for racks and fenders, etc. Cyclists who want that sort of bike can find it if they do a little research. In my previous post, I listed some fine examples -- Soma Smoothie, Salsa Casseroll, various Surly models, Rivendell Bleriot, Kona, etc. If you want a bike like that, go to your LBS and order one, or buy on on-line. What's stopping you? Instead, you whine and call other cyclists names because they don't share your particular tastes in a bike.

UGLY?
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Not as ugly as the Big ****er riding it

"Rivendell"? "go to your LBS and order one, or buy on on-line "? No chips on my shoulder, pal, you don't understand a word I wrote.

Being a Trek is OK by me, looks OK too though I prefer traditional curved forks with a decent trail. I'd change out the handlebars for North Road. THEN it would be perfect; more or less!

You're right about that -- I don't understand a word that you wrote. And I doubt if anybody else does either. You seem to be ranting against some unseen enemy.

Welcome to my sense of humor.

Were any of my favorite commuters mentioned in this much maligned...sorry, discussed article?

trek portland - https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes...land/portland/

cannondale cross xr7 - https://www.cannondale.com/bikes/08/c...del-8XR7C.html

Brodie romax - https://www.brodiebikes.com/2007/2007_bikes/romax.php
brodie ronin - https://www.brodiebikes.com/2007/2007_bikes/ronin.php

lemond poprad disc - https://www.lemondbikes.com/bikes/cross/poprad_disc.php

rocky mountain sherpa - https://www.bikes.com/bikes/2007/TOURING/sherpa-10.aspx

kona sutra - https://www.konaworld.com/08_sutra_w.htm

orbea diem drop disc - https://www.orbea.com/ingles/interior...ilia=6&gama=13

focus cross disc - https://www.focusbikesuk.com/focuscyc...cross_disc.php

devinci caribou2 - https://www.devinci.com/10479_an.html

raleighusa sojourn - https://www.raleighusa.com/items.asp?deptid=5&itemid=427

rei novara element - https://www.rei.com/product/744808

co-motion mazama - https://www.co-motion.com/mazama.html

rocky mountain Solo CXD - https://bikes.com/2008_preview/2008_preview.html

rotwild rs1cx - https://www.rotwild.de/en/ (street bikes section)

fixie inc. pureblood - https://www.cycles-for-heroes.com/200...pureblood.html

maxx roadmaxx custom (you choose the color and parts at the LBS and the factory puts it together, i.e., not a custom frame) - https://www.maxx.de/frmain_bikes.htm (road - roadmaxx custom)

Salsa la Cruz - https://www.salsacycles.com/laCruzComp08.html

Don't think any of 'em were discussed as commuters. Why not try the The Road Cycling list?

Though it wouldn't surprise me to read here how these "commuter bikes" have lots to offer for the money for all those cyclists who commute dozens of miles each way every day up and down mountains in good weather.

Well, not really; although I sometimes think that I should've gotten a 'cross bike instead of my CAAD8 (mainly because of how often I ride it instead of my "city bike"), most of those bikes in your list lack mounting points for racks & fenders. That's not always a deal-breaker, of course, thanks to P-clips and such, but it's one strike against many cross bikes.

iltb-2 and barracksi thanks

TBC - I'm still trying to find words to rip holes in the OP's extremely limited and narrow minded choice of bikes without looking overly negative Maybe he should have looked at what other people are actually riding in the commuting bikes pictures thread - https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/49471-commuter-bicycle-pics.html

Mine does. And in many sizes He also can order any fancy cross, road, or mountain bike frame I want. Needless to say, he also has lots of vintage parts (if you're into that sort of thing). God... I love my LBS!

I thought I'd never see a phrase like that.. lol

I've said earlier that people will commute on anything, and that it also doesn't exactly mean that every bike is a commuter bike. Similarly, drivers might commute in cars like Hondas, Porsches, and Hummers, but only the Honda gets labeled as a "commuter car".

Even after that, it kinda depends on the type of commute -- is it over 15-20 miles of back roads, or across 15-20 blocks downtown, or multi-modal (going by bus or rail partway)? I can think of an ideally-equipped bike for each of those three versions of commuting. Unfortunately, that's a limiting view, too.

no problem

Exactly my point - it seems incredibly fatuous for the OP to even claim his choice of ~5 bikes are an overview of commuter bikes for 2008. Maybe I'm just in a bad mood but even I never represent the 700c/drop bar/disc brake bikes I like as anything other than bikes I like.

Arrogance or ignorance on the OPs part? Who knows, anyway I'd better stop as this is starting to look personal and, apart from my feelings on the piss poor thread title, isn't meant to be.

Just to follow up I did stop at the LBS on the way home from work and they did in fact have a large number of these bikes on the floor. Marins, Bianchis, and Breezers. There were at least some discrepancies between the prices on the site and the prices on the bikes at the store. I don't know if this is because the website is out of date, a mistake, or maybe I just remembered the prices as being different. There were bikes with both 3 and 8 speed Nexus Hubs. The was also a bike that I don't remember being on the site, - a French made Bianchi of all things

Hmm... well, I wouldn't quite go that far. Maybe "focused", but not really "ignorant", and certainly not "arrogant".

For my purposes, in my area, I can think of maybe two kinds of bicycle that would work great -- one would be a folder, the other would be a step-through "girl's" frame. Both would have dynohubs & lights, internal gearing, fenders, a rack or two, and an upright stance with either traditional "North Road" bars or narrow flat bars.

That's pretty much it. Many other flavors of bike would have advantages that don't mean much in this particular setting, and disadvantages that would make them less desirable than the two bikes I just outlined.

Yes but it's only a few Hondas that are considered commuting cars. In the automobile world, "commuter" is pretty much synonymous with "small". Generally, something that's reliable and efficient is a good "commuter" regardless of how it gets labeled.

Most people when buying a car don't think "I'm going to use this car primarily for commuting therefore it should have x features". They buy a car based on what appeals to them and what features they want regardless of whether they're commuting or taking a road trip to visit Grandma.

So what's kind of limiting in this discussion is the idea of purchasing a bike with just commuting in mind instead of thinking "I'll commute with this bike therefore it should have x features, but what else might I want to do with it?"

We end up talking about a category or style of bikes labeled as commuters instead of just listing what types of components/equipment a bike used for commuting should have. Further, while a bike with a very upright riding position might make a fine commuter under certain circumstances I don't understand what it is about that riding position that makes it better for commuting than any other style of bike intended for road use. I do understand that some people prefer that riding position.

If you're not trying to average over 15-20 mph, aerodynamics isn't a problem -- but being able to see, especially in city traffic, is more important, and an upright position makes it easier to see what everyone else is doing. Plus, it's easier on the rider's neck than even riding on the hoods of a drop-bar bike.

"Commuting" is a broad term, but so is "mountain biking" -- yet there are specialty breeds of mountain bike, so it's not difficult to imagine that there would also be specialty breeds of commuter bike.

Ah, but lots of people do buy a car based on features that make it smarter for commuting. They'll say that all they need is something to get them to work and back with good reliability and good gas mileage. Many cars, minivans, trucks, and SUVs are immediately eliminated, so they're left with "typical commuter cars" -- small sedans, coupes or hatchbacks, all with modest engines.

You can't look at that kind of car and call it an SUV or a sports car, so what are you going to call it instead? "Commuter car" sounds like an accurate category.

I don't get why commuters need to defend themselves in a commuting specific forum.

Surely there are all kinds on commuters on here. Some coming from the countryside into small towns to work. Some from suburbs or urban areas going downtown. Some travel a mile or two--others go for 20 miles each way, and some deal with several hundred feet in elevation changes. Some are in dry areas and some in greenbelts.

But the modest commutes by the typical commuter over much of the North America and Europe warrants a commuter specific bike, with fenders, kickstand, a rack, bell, and lights. That stuff, at a minimum, is needed if one wants to commute year round (unless you're in Death Valley or the Great Victoria Desert). Also, for the normal commuts of less than 10 miles, there's little reason for drops. You'll save a few minutes but lose the heads up vantage point needed for safe city riding.

I know many riders go for long jaunts and take their road or cyclecross bikes. Yeah, they go faster. Does that exerience, which you'd never do on a commuter style bike, jade you so much that you'd never ride on an upright bike with fenders? Does it make you think that such commuters are misguided? Just why would you say that bikes made for that purpose are "limited" or "narrow minded?"

We know there's a roadie bent that's been going on here for a long time. But can't you see that there's real reason for commuter specific bikes? I testify that I use every feature on my Breezer. How can it be that such bikes are narrow minded?

It isn't the bikes that are narrow minded, Dave.

To be generous, let us call our Roadie friends who do not recognize any other cycling priority than their own, "narrowly focused".

I'm still trying to decide if I should be insulted by the anti roadie BS many commuters frequently engage in.
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Nope. Too busy.

I am amused with the brief thought of how iltb may have began to dislike road bikes and those that ride them.
I am thinking something along the lines of being shoved off his bike when he was 8 by someone on a 10 speed.
Yes, I am kidding. Just amusing myself.

This is where you are missing the point. There is no "majority of the public" interested in bikes for short distance commuting/utility activity, at least not in this country. Thats why the bikes aren't readily available. Its got nothing to do with elitism...there's not currently a market for it.

Sorry, I neither dislike road bikes nor those that ride them; only annoyed by the posts on a forum for commuting from those who cannot recognize that such bikes are not necessarily the supremeo/wisest/best choice for all who would like to commute.

You are at the wrong kind of site for Real self amusement.

Common! You could at least entertain me! Makeup a story at least.
Shoot....
lol

I don't think anyone has ever submitted a post like that...maybe a few, but not many.