I'd just scooch over to the sidewalk, push the button, and scooch back. Or run it. If cities are going to use sensor based lights there really should be a law allowing you to run them when they malfunction. It's not like they even work anyway: http://www.columbustelegram.com/arti...9359981032.txt

Detection of Bicycles by Quadrupole Loops

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycl.../detection.htm

How to Turn Signals Green

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycl...nals/green.htm

These are the best articles I've seen, and written by Steven Goodridge, PhD--an active member of bikeforums. (let's try not to hold that against him)

Most of these detectors work, but either the cyclist doesn't know how to trigger them, or the cyclist is too impatient to wait for them to switch the light. I've often geven up on detectors, ridden through the red light, then looked back to see the light finally turning green.

Well, that will teach me to open my mouth before I do research!

Hey, thanks for the links. I've always assumed my bike won't trip them, so I wait a suitable amount of time and treat it as a stop sign (defective light). If a car is coming up behind me I wait until it trips the signal for me. One thing I can say for sure, the colder it is, the shorter I wait.

Will try these suggestions and see what happens.

FWIW, sometimes they won't trip even in a car if you roll past them and stop too far up. A number of times I've sat at one in particular and as soon as I back up a few feet it will go.

Huh, boy was he looking for something to do!

I sit and wait. And probably look like a nerd as I wait for some of the city lights to go thru their set of changes - and if after a looooong set of seconds where it did not change for me, well then I go thru it (safely). My club actually has in a handbook written by a well known bicyclist of how to lay your bicycle down in the certain area so as to change the light. Ugh.

I like the idea of the magnet - have to look into it. But until then - I will wait, very impatiently, thru a series of lights and if my light doesn't change - I'll do it. But actually in a busy section, where I've been at lights where I have not triggered it and - it's gone thru the sequence and I don't make a difference - I have gotten pissed off and jumped sidewalks (busy streets). I do not normally do that.

This is kind of a problem I've been having. I am skeptical about every sensor I come across and simply assume it didn't detect me (because a lot don't). Some detect, some don't, so I just assume they don't and proceed through the intersection with caution when all clear.

It would only count if you're *convicted* of the offense the cop's charging you with. A ticket is a summons. If you send in the fine, you're pleading guilty. Tell them you want a trial, and show up at the court.

Also, if you are convicted of whatever it is, I believe you have 5 days (or ten???) to appeal it.

These lights are triggered by a change in electronic field density. Anything can change them as long as they are set to be sensitive enough. I regularly trigger the lights with my carbon fiber bike. There were a few lights in my area that couldn't be triggered with a bicycle but they been fixed. What I regularly do is to stand in the square cut out on the ground and wait for the light to change.

But do you have to show your drivers' license? If so, I might stop bringing it with me

Yeah, cops really like it when we make suggestions like that.

;)

Problem with that is where to park your bike while you go to court, and where to put your tools and patch kit that most of us carry with us since most courts these days won't allow you to carry tools into the courtroom. And I'm not about to leave my seatbag on the bike while I go into the courthouse. This does not take into consideration the hassle of having to take the time to go to court.

Bicycles and motorcycles, I'll either sit and wait and then make a judgement call, or I'll find a different route. Some signals that I've learned from experience that won't trigger for me I will just use them as a stop sign and proceed with caution.

Once when I lived in southern California I actually had an officer driving past on the main road as I sat there at a light to turn left tell me over his loudspeaker to just go when it's safe. He got a smile and a wave, and after that I never spent more than 10 seconds at that light.

If you're really in a ticket zone then just start logging calls to the roadway department, and keep a log of what number you called, when you called (day and time), and what light and direction the faulty signal was at. Then if an officer tags you again just pull out your little pocket pad and show him you've called in 30 times.

Excellent links, I will try the second link tomorrow morning (my ride home there is plenty of traffic to change the lights for me).

This is mainly a problem on my morning commute 'cause as I said I leave my house at 4am so there are not a whole lot of cars on the road. If it is still a problem I will report the light as defective, and use side streets to avoid this light.

You really shouldn't be asking someone in another country for information about your LOCAL laws. Do some research and find out.

This has been a problem in Portland (tickets) from what I've been reading, though I think it mostly has to do with the local Critical Mass rides causing problems (taking both lanes on a bridge, come on guys...).

They have also been targeting fixed gear bikes without a brake, which I kinda support as many of the fixed gear riders now are n00bs and really can't stop their bikes properly. For the more experienced fixed gear riders it is not a problem.

That's really funny. Since when do you need a driver's license to get a job? Half the people in NYC must be unemployed.

this happens on motorcyles ALL THE TIME.

a lawyer I know that specializes in traffic law, has won many many cases over the last 20 years, stating that "a traffic light that will not change for motorcycles, bicycles, or pedestrians, that causes them to cross the intersection against the light, illegally, is MALFUNCTIONING, and should be treated as any traffic light thats not working properly: it's a 4 way stop."

this is well documented in california traffic law (not sure about oregon) and I have beaten several tickets using that as my defense. (motorcycle, not bicycle mind you, but I don't think it makes a difference.)

(I dont have time to read all the replies if this is stated ignore me)

You can get a very high powered magnet and place it at the bottom of your bike and sometimes that does the trip. The magnet acts as a "huge object" for the sensors underground and can sometimes help you. I know motorcycles use these all the time. Should be no different for a bike.

As others pointed out there are ways to trigger the sensors. I have >90% success stopping on middle of the dipole sensors. Just a single aluminum wheel is enough for many of them.

Also consider that some left turn signals may require more than one vehicle to trigger, however in those designs you just don't get a protected left. Or others you have to get to more than a moment before the thru light turns green to get a left signal otherwise you have to wait a 2nd cycle.

So yeah, if you can't trigger it, then proceed as if a stop sign. But also call authorities and report it as malfunctioning.

Al

As I just wrote that is my experience too. Some major road crossings can take 3:30min to change after being triggered. 3-4min feels like a long wait.

Al

It seems like lights never change when I'm on my motorcycle or bicycle. When I went through my motorcycle training class they stated the malfunctioning light thing, though all they could say is "wait a reasonable amount of time." So I've ended up pulling through a lot of reds. The one time I was pulled over on my motorcycle (for going 5 over. Jeez) I asked the cop about it. He just said as long as I wait over a minute or two and it's safe to drive through, I shouldn't get harassed about it. That was in Eau Claire, WI, and the cops there are pretty laid back and cool as long as you are polite and not being a smartass. There's really no reason to be a dick to the cops in that town. The only times I ever have to wait because no other cars are around are late at night. A cop watched me sit at a red for over five minutes once -I didn't want to drive through because he was watching- I got sick of waiting and drove through and he didn't come after me, so I feel pretty safe doing it. At least in WI. I haven't had to do it in Milwaukee yet, and I just blow them on my bicycle.

In Minnesota, I believe (they told me this at my 55-alive refresher), a motorcycle may turn left after stopping because it might not trigger the light. I would assume a bicycle could, so I myself would, and if I got stopped I would explain that I can't trigger the light and I would ask what else I am supposed to do. I would expect that a reasonable police officer would understand that situation. If he were having a bad day and gave me a ticket, I would frame it.

However, I am developing a personal policy of not making left turns. I have run into a few situations where I am in the left lane with my arm out signaling for a left turn, and everyone STOPS as if they wonder what I am doing, even if they have the right of way. I don't know if they are trying to be nice, or if they are paralyzed with indecision, or what, but suddenly all the well-known traffic rules are thrown out and we're all playing, "no, please, after you, I insist."

Fortunately, my route to work is simple and short. Things might be different if I had to go ten miles one way in the middle of a major metropolitan area.

You need to read the posts...particularly CB HI's post and the related links. A magnet on a bike, motorcycle, car, head, etc. do nothing when it comes to inductions coils. Yes, they add mass to a bike but the magnetic field of a permanent magnet...even a very, very massive one that would be too big to carry on a bike...is too weak to have any effect on the induction coil unless it's in direct contact with the wires. Magnetic fields of permanent magnets decrease as a square of distance. This means that if the field has a certain strength at one distance, if you increase the distance from the magnet, the strength of the field is 1/4 as strong.

You can reliably trigger stoplights with induction coils by rolling your wheel directly over the wire buried in the pavement for it's entire length. If the coil is a figure 8 coil, line up on the middle of the figure 8 because the coil is more sensitive due to the two wires overlapping. The trick is to find that wire because they can get buried due to repavement of the road.

It's been my experience that people who say they can't trip the light with a bicycle or motorcycle, don't know how the coils work.

And, of course, having a driver's license does not prove that you're legally entitled to work anywhere!

I don't think a light that is malfunctioning by not turning green for a cycle should be treated as a 4-way stop; it should be treated as a blinking red.

4 way stop assumes that the cross traffic is going to stop. That's the case if the light is totally out (like in a power failure) but if you stop at a light, then go because you were the first one to it, and there's cross traffic with the green, you're almost certainly in the wrong (also dead).

What you should do is stop, then proceed when the way is clear. That's what you do at a blinking read, not at a 4 way stop.

good lord...........................

The officer's probably right. I don't believe Oregon has a law that deals with malfunctioning traffic control devices, although if the device isn't working at all, you would simply treat it as an uncontrolled intersection. Since the device was functioning, albeit not for you, you probably have to accept the control of the device. If there's a cross walk control, trigger that. If not, you'll have to make a series of legal turns. Oh, well.

Oregon Bicyclist Manual
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEP..._manual_06.pdf

Oregon bicycle and pedestrial laws and regulations
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/HWY/BIKEPED/laws_regs.shtml

Faced with this problem, I was advised by one of our friendlier cops to go ahead and use the switch that cycles the lights for pedestrians.

The problem is that a cyclist can not know a sensor/light is unresponsive to their vehicle until they are already in the left turn lane.

The only legal way out (if true that OR has no malfunctioning light law) is to wait for another vehicle to come behind you and trigger the light. If there are not other vehicles going in your direction, one is stuck.

Making a right turn from LTL or cutting from LTL to sidewalk are just as illegal as proceeding on a red left turn signal when the thru green is active.

Al

The only time this is even a little bit practical is if one is making a right turn, in which case one doesn't need to trigger the light. Otherwise my arm can't reach the pedestiran button from the left turn lane.

More important is that if you press the pedestrian crossing button, that will never trigger the left turn light, only a thru green light - in fact pressing the ped crossing button may force the left turn signal to stay red to protect crossing pedestrians.

Al