Hmmm, hadn't thought about the stuck in the lane aspect. That is a conundrum. I'll have to think on this some more; there might be some catch-22 case law that could be argued by analogy. You'd have a pretty good argument that the traffic code can't leave you stranded out there forever!

yeah, the oregon bike manual (as posted above) states you can hit the pedestrian switch... Unless you are in the LTL, wtf, apparently there is no provision for a faulty switch.

In Virginia the code says

B. If the traffic lights controlling an intersection are out of service because of a power failure or other event that prevents the giving of signals by the traffic lights, the drivers of vehicles approaching such an intersection shall proceed as though such intersection were controlled by a stop sign on all approaches. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to: intersections controlled by portable stop signs, intersections with law-enforcement officers or other authorized persons directing traffic, or intersections controlled by traffic lights displaying flashing red or flashing amber lights as provided in subsection A.

I know, it is a conundrum but I would maintain that I stopped, waited for traffic to clear, and proceeded as if the light was malfunctioning. Whether or not a cop would buy it is the question, or if the cop issues a citation whether the court would convict.

For my personal situation, it doesn`t really make much difference- my commute doesn`t involve any traffic lights and in my day-time wanderings through busier areas the lights are all on timers. But I`m curious about these ideas concerning stationing yourself directly on top of the sensor and rolling right up the middle of it and figure-eight coils, etc. How the hell are you supposed to know what kind of sensor it is or even WHERE it is? A major street usually has lanes what, 12 ft wide? Something like that, anyway. Ain`t no way I`m fat enough to even cover a quartert of that width. And how far back from the line? Again, most bicycles are less than half the length of a Corolla. If you don`t know where the sensors are, you`d need to wait five minutes, move over, wait five minutes again, move... No thanks- I`ll just run the light.

Er, as an electrical engineer, I don't like the terms you used- very confusing. The loop is the inductive part of a resonant circuit that changes frequency when a piece of metal comes near- changes the inductance of the loop. Kind of like a metal dectector. The relationship of your bike to the loop determines how much the frequency changes, and therefore whether the traffic signal is triggered. A rule of thumb is to stop your front or rear tire on top of and parallel to one edge of the loop, which will give maximum coupling of your rim to the electromagnetic field of the loop. Stopping right in the center of the loop is actually quite a bit worse- you want to maximize the amount of magnetic flux flowing through the loop of your wheel (or your frame if it's not carbon), and the field is coming straight out of the ground at the center of the loop.

Magnets won't do any good these days. The old style loops that detected the change in magnetic field due to the motion of the residual magnetic field in the car's frame are obsolete and never really worked that well anyway.

Samething you do when your walking,push the button.

It does seem that Oregon traffic code does not contain a section on how to handle a malfunctioning traffic signal.

http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/811.html

OR traffic code:
(Traffic Control Devices)


811.260 Appropriate driver responses to traffic control devices. This section establishes appropriate driver responses to specific traffic control devices for purposes of ORS 811.265. Authority to place traffic control devices is established under ORS 810.210. Except when acting under the direction of a police officer that contradicts this section, a driver is in violation of ORS 811.265 if the driver makes a response to traffic control devices that is not permitted under the following:

(1) Green signal. A driver facing a green light may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign at that place prohibits either turn. A driver shall yield the right of way to other vehicles within the intersection at the time the green light is shown.

(2) Green arrow. A driver facing a green arrow signal light, shown alone or in combination with another signal, may cautiously enter the intersection only to make the movement indicated by such arrow or such other movement as is permitted by other signals shown at the same time.

(3) Steady circular yellow signal. A driver facing a steady circular yellow signal light is thereby warned that the related right of way is being terminated and that a red or flashing red light will be shown immediately. A driver facing the light shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, shall stop before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no marked crosswalk, then before entering the intersection. If a driver cannot stop in safety, the driver may drive cautiously through the intersection.

(4) Steady yellow arrow signal. A driver facing a steady yellow arrow signal, alone or in combination with other signal indications, is thereby warned that the related right of way is being terminated. Unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, a driver facing a steady yellow arrow signal shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, shall stop before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no marked crosswalk, then before entering the intersection. If a driver cannot stop in safety, the driver may drive cautiously through the intersection.

(5) Steady circular red signal. A driver facing a steady circular red signal light alone shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no marked crosswalk, then before entering the intersection. The driver shall remain stopped until a green light is shown except when the driver is permitted to make a turn under ORS 811.360.

(6) Steady red arrow signal. A driver facing a steady red arrow signal, alone or in combination with other signal indications, may not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the red arrow signal. Unless entering the intersection to make some other movement which is permitted by another signal, a driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no marked crosswalk, then before entering the intersection. The vehicle shall remain stopped until a green light is shown except when the driver is permitted to make a turn under ORS 811.360.

(7) Traffic control devices at places other than intersections. If a traffic control device that is a signal is erected and maintained at a place other than an intersection, the provisions of this section relating to signals shall be applicable. A required stop shall be made at a sign or marking on the roadway indicating where the stop shall be made, but in the absence of such sign or marking the stop shall be made at the signal.

(8) Flashing red signal. When a driver approaches a flashing red light used in a traffic control device or with a traffic sign, the driver shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no marked crosswalk, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. The right to proceed shall be subject to the rules applicable after making a stop at a stop sign. This subsection does not apply at railroad grade crossings. Conduct of a driver approaching a railroad grade crossing is governed by ORS 811.455.

(9) Flashing yellow signal. When a driver approaches a flashing yellow light used as a signal in a traffic control device or with a traffic sign, the driver may proceed through the intersection or past the signal only with caution. This subsection does not apply at railroad grade crossings. Conduct of a driver approaching a railroad grade crossing is governed by ORS 811.455.

(10) Lane direction control signals. When lane direction control signals are placed over the individual lanes of a highway, a person may drive a vehicle in any lane over which a green signal light is shown, but may not enter or travel in any lane over which a red signal light is shown.

(11) Stop signs. A driver approaching a stop sign shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering the marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if there is no marked crosswalk, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway before entering it. After stopping, the driver shall yield the right of way to any vehicle in the intersection or approaching so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard during the time when the driver is moving across or within the intersection.

(12) Yield signs. A driver approaching a yield sign shall slow the driver’s vehicle to a speed reasonable for the existing conditions and if necessary for safety, shall stop at a line as required for stop signs under this section, and shall yield the right of way to any vehicles in the intersection or approaching so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard. [1983 c.338 §609; 1989 c.539 §1; 1997 c.507 §6; 2003 c.278 §6]



811.265 Failure to obey traffic control device; penalty. (1) A person commits the offense of driver failure to obey traffic control device if the person drives a vehicle and the person does any of the following:

(a) Fails to obey the directions of any traffic control device.

(b) Fails to obey any specific traffic control device described in ORS 811.260 in the manner required by that section.

(2) A person is not subject to this section if the person is doing any of the following:

(a) Following the directions of a police officer.

(b) Driving an emergency vehicle or ambulance in accordance with the privileges granted those vehicles under ORS 820.300.

(c) Properly executing a turn on a red light as authorized under ORS 811.360.

(d) Driving in a funeral procession led by a funeral lead vehicle or under the direction of the driver of a funeral escort vehicle.

(3) The offense described in this section, driver failure to obey a traffic control device, is a Class B traffic violation. [1983 c.338 §608; 1991 c.482 §13]

I guess if I didn't want the possible hassle of explaining myself to law enforcement or a judge, I'd probably move to the sidewalk (after signaling for 100' if practicable of course!), trigger the pedestrian switch, and resume cycling in my intended path of travel after with the pedestrian light.

Check this page for more information on how Portland marks the exact spot to place your bike at an intersection:
http://www.portlandonline.com/shared....cfm?id=145110

Call a human (listed below) at the City of Portland Bike Program and see if they can get the device adjusted properly! Danged if I can figure out from their website who the appropriate person is.

Roger Geller
City of Portland
1120 SW 5th Ave., Room 800
Portland, OR 97204
Phone: 503-823-7671
Fax: 503-823-7576
e-mail: roger.geller@pdxtrans.org

Jeff Smith
City of Portland
1120 SW 5th Ave., Room 800
Portland, OR 97204
Phone: 503-823-7083
Fax: 503-823-9194
e-mail: jeff.smith@pdxtrans.org

Linda Ginenthal
City of Portland
1120 SW 5th Ave., Room 800
Portland, OR 97204
Phone: 503-823-5266
Fax: 503-823-9194
e-mail: linda.ginenthal@pdxtrans.org

Janis McDonald
City of Portland
1120 SW 5th Ave., Room 800
Portland, OR 97204
Phone: 503-823-5358
Fax: 503-823-9194
e-mail: janis.mcdonald@pdxtrans.org

Timo Forsberg
City of Portland
1120 SW 5th Ave., Room 800
Portland, OR 97204
Phone: 503-823-7699
Fax: 503-823-9194
e-mail: timothy.forsberg@pdxtrans.org

Unless the road has been repaved since installation of the loop, the location of the wires is pretty clear. The wires are installed in the ground after the pavement has been cut and the cuts filled with tar. Most of the figure 8 ones look like this

http://www.plan-bravo.com/photos/loop2.jpg

Position your bike right over the middle of the loop. If the loop has been recovered due to an overlay job, then finding the coil is nearly impossible. Those are the ones I usually can't trip.

Once you learn the trick to tripping the light, you can amaze your friends on those high speed highway crossings!

What was the cop's suggestion for getting thru the intersection?

unfortunately I was concentrating on being agreeable and not getting a ticket... in retrospect it would have been smart to ask him :-|

I wait until it's safe and then I run them. Just as you did.

What do you suggest if your bike is made of aluminum? Or carbon fiber? Hell, I sometimes have trouble tripping lights on my Honda CB750.

I must have missed the how coils work portion of my drivers education training some 25+ years ago when I took it. :D

If you've given the light a good serious chance to change, it is legal for you to cross it on red, for reason that the traffic light is DEFECTIVE. Be sure to notify the city that the light is defective.

You are in good company. Most people haven't a clue on how the magic lights work;)

Doesn't make a difference. The coils work by inducing current flow from moving a conductive material through the magnetic field. Carbon fiber and aluminum are conductive...just not magnetic. Line up on the middle of line of the coil and ride the entire length (It'll work with your motorcycle too;)) of the loop. Like this

http://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/imag...20closeupa.jpg


It'll trip in most cases. I have a less than 5% failure rate if I know where the loop is.

hmm...
I have a particularly annoying intersection at iliff and colorado blvd. Silly me has been sitting on the right side of the loop. Tomorrow I will give a go at the middle.

I don't usually scofflaw but there is this pair of traffic lights on 2 T-intersections that are mere 20 yards away from each other that are, for some reason, never green or red at the same time even at 6 in the morning. These lights seems to be timed too so they cycle through even though there are no cars in sight. So, naturally, I just blow through these lights in the morning.

But this morning a police SUV caught me doing this. He did not stop me though. He paced next to me and I heard "Excuse me!". I looked and it was the Police. He says, "You know, you still need to stop on red lights."

Without slowing down my pace I gave him the most apologetic face I can muster and I said "I'm sorry."

He says "OK." and he drove off.

I still managed to blow 3-4 red lights for the rest of my commute.

I know. I should not blow red lights. But its 6 am and there are no cars in sight. I slow down to make sure the roads are clear though.

EDIT: I take back I don't usually scofflaw. I just realized I do. :D

Same for Washington, D.C. These murder-capital cops have bigger fish to fry (such as ticketing jaywalkers) and are used to bicycle messengers, capable of breaking 10 traffic laws within one intersection. Any shenanigans I pull are well within the standards, and I always do a 360 glance before doing anything that could earn me a ticket. I'm too cheap.

i don't know if someone mentioned this but it works for me:

When you're stopped at the light, tilt your bike down so it's almost laying down flat over the sensor. Only really works if you have a steel bike.

No need to lay your bike down. The wheels will do an excellent job if positioned correctly. From Steve Goodridge's excellent articles, the following illustrates how the wheels interact with the loop.

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycl...als/wheels.gif

The wheels are what interacts with the induction coil. The frame interacts to a much lesser extent because of it's distance from the coil. That's why you have to lay the bike down on the loops if you don't ride directly over the most sensitive part of the loop.

And, again, the bike doesn't have to be steel. Any material that will conduct electricity will work. That means aluminum, steel, titanium, lead, magnesium, rubidium:eek::eek::eek: or carbon fiber (as well as about a hundred more exotic metals) will work.

Keep up the good work cycco!

Did you go watch the video? The safety guys at my work actually linked to that;)

The one with the girl in the yellow shirt? That's all I remember.

(I watched a bit with no sound)

Al

Doesn't matter. It's not a steel detector, it's an inductive loop, and anything conductive will trigger it. The wheel rims are a hell of a lot closer than the frame so they'll make the biggest impact. As long as you have conductive wheel rims and you plant them right on top of the loop (NOT in the middle) you've got nearly as good a chance of triggering it with a carbon frame as someone riding a steel frame.

Watch a little more. It's got lots of cool boomby bits...especially if you like seeing bathtubes explode;)

Hey, new member here. I haven't read this entire thread, but I am an EE and I think I have a general idea of how light sensors work.

The light sensor is a giant metal detector that detects inductive objects that are aligned with the magnetic field it produces. By "aligned inductive objects" I mean large, horizontal steel objects (like a car/truck frame, for example). Motorcycles have the same problem as bikes do with setting them off. You could lay your bike down like one poster mentioned, but there is a product out there that is basically an inductor you put on the bottom of your motorcycle.

Something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Amanet-RLC-40-.../dp/B000NPNXOW

It definately doesn't matter what frame you have. When I rode my steel touring bike with big ol marathon plus tires there were 5-6 lights I could never get. No matter where I stopped along the loop in the street. Now my Ti Road bike with pretty hefty deepv/aeroish wheels and 25mm tires it seems to get all but two on my route. I have ridden the tourer since so they haven't adjusted anything on the sensors.

That's interesting. I wonder if the distance between rim and sensor (tire thickness) has a bigger effect than what ones frame is made of.
Al