+1

Cycling is like everything else in life. If you want to spend lots of money someone will supply overpriced products to fill that need.

The BD isn't really a touring bike, although you can tour on it.
I see it more of a car killer for most trips, including carrying a child or an adult passenger.

Lets piss all over Surly and Xtracycle. They sure look like the types of folks that design over priced, consumption based goods that will end up in the landfill next month. Lets also piss all over people in the bike industry making an honest living, and then moan that commuting and utility cyclists don't get any respect in the shops. This is a far cry from the vertically compliant road smoothing go faster carbon unobtanium race fashion wonder bikes that some people ride on the weekends and only in fair weather.


$1800 for a full build? Sounds like a steal to me. To be honest it sounds like it is grossly under priced, like most everything in our culture, to take into account all of the embodied social, energy and environmental costs involved.

Would I buy one? If I didn't have a Bakfiets, for sure.
And if I clean out my stable of bikes I don't ride, I just might scrounge enough $$ for a frame, and use older parts to do the build.

Surly and xtracycle are both good companies. I have no idea why anyone would get all pissy about the price. Don't want to pay the $1800 for an all in one then buy an xtracycle kit. I may end up doing the very same thing due to budget constraints. Plus, I plan on visiting garage sales this year and that would fit perfectly with a garage sale find.

I keep hearing that they are going to sell-out of the frame. To me, this means it is most certainly NOT overpriced. Will their margins be greater than on other frames? Maybe, but hey...that's what being in business is all about...finding a product people want, and selling it to people for more money than it takes to make it.

Not that I've heard. You can check the geometry chart though. The 18" frame has an effective 23.5" top tube, which is on par with medium mountain bike frames.

BDs have an intentionally low standover so I would size the frame strictly based on TT and what bars you plan on using.

I ride a 58cm LHT and would ride a 18" BD.

They prettymuch have sold out at this point. There's a literal handful of unsold frames left, counting the few odd sizes still in transit. Early adopters are rarely a test of pricepoint though.

The market price of these frames won't be tested until at least the second batch arrives (six months from now), or maybe even later batches. Positive press and low supply could keep them in demand for quite some time.

If i had to make an uneducated guess, I'd say that the BD frames are likely less profitable than the rest of the Surly line.

Then you should buy one before they run out.


Holier than thou, eh? As if you yourself don't contribute to any landfill.

Others shouldn't get so pissy themselves about defending Surly or Xtracycle. People can say the Big Dummy is overpriced because they have at least two datum points they can compare it to, that being (1) a bike with a Free Rad attachment and (2) a complete Yuba Mundo build for UNDER a grand. If neither of the latter existed, then it would be presumptuous to call it overpriced. But they exist, so it's not.

And no one is condemning those who choose to buy a Big Dummy either, ok?

Yikes, that's steep. Time to go get a steel frame from the Salvation Army, some steel tube, and break out the brazing torch I guess.

True, but there's nothing to prevent Surly from changing the pricing. I suspect that as they produce and sell more of them their COGS drops anyway, so it could be justified as something more than just "stick it to the early adopters." If they do, the'll want to look at what happened with the i-phone, and NOT do it that way. At any rate, the current price is reasonable given the response they are getting to the product (IMO).

Never said I didn't - you, however claimed that this was overpriced and not needed.


Well, your initial post sounded fairly accusatory, as if people we just throwing money away.


Free Rad will need a previous bike that works, install time, and monkeying with parts and adjustments. It will also probably ride much differently than an integrated frame.

You're comparing this to a Yuba?
Was that the single speed version?
Does the Yuba include bags and accessories designed to work with the cargo system?
Disc brakes?

My BD frame arrived last Thursday.

What Taiwan labor it that? You should talk to the folks from Surly and get them to tell you some stories about how producing this bike really screws up their other production, which is why they only do runs of 300 at a time and have to plan carefully.

Yep, I ride 57-58cm bikes, my BD frame is an 18".

chip - you're going to need more screen space on your sig line to fit the BD in...

My thoughts exactly. He's hogging all the cool bikes.

The Kona UTE is already out, it seems like a pretty nice ride....weird to handle though, it has crazy moustache bars!

Heh, I was thinking that myself when I was updating. BF is just gonna have to increase the darned width...I'm a payin customer, dambnit!

A BD is stout enough. Just pile your other bikes on top of it and then take a new picture.

No, jeffbeerman2 asked how to transport large quantities of toilet paper, etc. to which I replied you can already do this with an Xtracycle, you don't have to use a Big Dummy. In that case, if you already own an X, a Big Dummy is not so much a need as it is a want.

Why not? The need for extra stability seems to have prompted the whole Big Dummy idea. But most of us already know that carrying tons of weight on the rear of a bike makes for lousy handling in general. I think if Surly were to do this right from the ground up, they'd create something more akin to a bakfiets. Yet they were forced to conform to the Xtra style in order to use Xtra bits and parts because, well, the Free Rad was already in the marketplace.

The Mundo purports to have the same carrying capacity and is more compact so the load does not have to be so far back. Yeah it's not X compatible, but people are showing that making their own bags can rival anything Xtra has to offer, plus I think Ortlieb (or some other well known manufacturer) is going to come out with compatible bags soon.

As far as drive train, even if you were to buy a single speed Mundo, you could at least ride it. Buying a Big Dummy frame only gets you the frame. But I think the $799 Mundo version is a multi-speed version.

And as far as disc brakes go, if you've read Surly's initial spew, you would have read Surly acknowledging that the rear disc brake will rub against a Free Rad Freeloader, wearing it down, so you have to watch that area. My impression is that this wasn't a first iteration flaw either, but something inherent in the Big Dummy design.

Lastly, you know the Big Dummy is NOT ready for prime time because neither X nor Surly has a viable kickstand solution. Good luck trying to load you Big Dummy to the max! For goodness sake, that damn kickstand shown at Interbike should have been the first thing to have been produced. For now, I will conjecture that most Big Dummys will only be ridden for show. Can't use it fully if you can't hold it up fully. At least the Mundo comes with a Hebie Bi-Pod.

Leave it to DJ to come up with the simple solution that eluded me!

LBS wrench who got his frame the same time as mine already has his built, kickstand and all. I'd rather have a bipod type stand, but the stand on this bike has no problem supporting it fully loaded.

Yawn...no good deed goes unpunished these days... It is amazing how critical people can be of a bike they've never seen or ridden. The Xtracycle concept has been proven extensively by people who are using them for all sorts of hauling tasks to off-road touring. Surly took their time through 3-4 sets pf prototypes refining the BD. Do you honestly think they haven't used them for any real hauling missions to this point? So you are envisaging the 300-500 frames sold in this batch will be used for coffee runs and sunday rides in the park - crippled by Surly's obvious oversight??? Come on.

I'm stoked Surly made the Big Dummy. Investing time and effort in a model that will never be a big seller is a nice gesture. Doing something because you believe in it and are having fun with your bikes is awesome.

Yes! We can only hope that the Kona Ute, Surly Big Dummy, Yuba Mondo, and others are foreshadowing a widespread need and desire for human powered transportation in North America.