Oh God. This is turning into another classic makeinu thread that hearkens back to the "tell me how to replace my chain without the $5 tool, even though I'm most likely to destroy the chain and possibly myself in the process" thread.

Dude. You're trying to claim that braking with your hands is dangerous. All the responses you're getting are from people who have a lot of riding experience telling how and why you're wrong, and you just argue.

What you ought to do is to learn how to brake properly and get your bike set up right. If you're having any trouble reaching the brakes from a stable position, your bike isn't set up correctly. If you find yourself braking while you're turning, then you're not riding correctly - whether you're riding a bike or driving a car, you brake BEFORE you turn, then accelerate through the apex of the turn. Note that means that when you're turning, you're not braking anyway, so your point is moot.

As for the test of which leaves you in greater control, rear-only or front only...if you know how to use your brakes, it won't make any significant difference. If you screw up, then using front-only can cause an endo...but, if you believe Sheldon (and I do), that screwup is usually performed by a rear-only braker who grabs the front out of desperation when the rear doesn't stop quickly enough.

How's this for a compromise - you gloss over the part about how front-only braking will slow the bike more quickly than any other method, unless your brakes are extra weak. Since that's the case, brake with the front and keep the other hand solely on the handlebars.

But I'm still figuring how you've screwed your bike up so badly that you can't reach the brakes from a normal hand position on the bars.

Personally, the handbrake system is simple, direct and has an excellent track record. I have been able to emergency stop and maneuver hundreds of times with them. My experience with using the back brake only is somewhat less successful (before I learned how to use the brakes correctly and when I had a coaster brake bike). The brakes do not require pressure from your arm but rather a gripping motion from your hand, thereby not interfering with the arms ability to steer since one can in fact steer the handlebars by clutching the brake itself and the fingers do not steer themselves. So, yes handbrakes are not only the simplest solution but are safe as well.

I'm trying to give the OP the benefit of the doubt, so perhaps he can expand on these statements:

and

and

Maybe I'm not seeing this because I've always used drops and perhaps you use a flat or cruiser bar? In the drops, my thumbs wrap on the inside of the curve, my fingers reach around the outside and grab the brake levers. On the hoods, same thing except that I'm reaching top down. In neither case is the brake lever between my hands and the bars. I don't think I have exceptionally long fingers and I just have standard levers (Shimano STI on my geared bike, Cane Creek levers on the FG)

On flat bars if the levers are set up correctly then you can get your index and or middle fingers over the lever. There are reach adjusters on the vast majority of levers on the market these days. Your wheel needs to be true and your brakes need to be tuned and tight enough that you don't end up hitting your fingers that are still on the bar when you brake hard.

Basically the OP doesn't have their bike adjusted correctly and or doesn't know how to use it appropriately and has therefore decided that hand brakes are dangerous.

Yep.:beer:

Ok guys, I think I understand him now. Picture a road bike, the normal curve handlebars have been rotated up so the curves stare you in the face and the brakes are now towards you and not pointed down the road. This sounds like the situation our OP is in. I see lots of these guys around (they do it to incorrectly to get a more upright position). I say this half in jest, but it makes all of the above arguments sound sensible if this is the dangerous handbrakes he is talking about.

^^+1^^
Or the levers are pushed way down low causing a wacky wrist angle that could necessitate a one or the other brake/control situation he speaks of? I prefer to read the traffic and accelerate out of trouble when possible. BUT when the fecal matter hits the air circulation device, brakes, swerves, skidding the back right out and foot down to stay up then pop the curb, bunny hopping the curb, are all options. I've had cars turn from oncoming right in front of me in the rain as I split downtown core lanes with messing. Skid the back out and take the car's side on the hip. Curse and ride away. Six million ways to die, choose none.

yeah.. this is a makeinu classic.

I'm actually shocked at myself for responding to this thread in the first place. But, I have, and so have others.

makeinu, dude,

you really are fishing.. and I'm not sure for what. And as Paul L. and BikEthan have said. It sounds like, from your inability to keep your hands firmly on the handle bars AND reach two (cus that's all you need) fingers to reach the brake levers; means its not hand brakes that are bad. It's your bike setup.

If you really wanted help you could just post a picture of your bike to the thread and say "I don't feel comfortable reaching my hands to my hand brakes while my hands are on the bars, what should I do?" and then you could get real advice.

Since you have never done this (especially in the threads where you get argumentative) many of us, myself included, conclude that you're not much more than a clever troll.

Prove me wrong, please? I like to be proven wrong about people I have a bad opinion of.


(and for anyone who wonders, the OP spends most of his time in the folding bike forum and talking about those tread bikes)

EDIT: I reread the long post from makeinu in the middle of this thread. And I gotta repeat, that's a pretty subtle piece of trolling there. A whole lot of "you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong" on both sides. But, a good bit of it from the OP reads as trolling to me because it seems to be argumentative for arguments sake.

examples:
originally posted by makeinu
WTF?!?

so yeah... troll or not troll? you decide!

could his issues stem from those tiny little wheels?

I for one would be happy to give advice on bike set up.

as far as I can tell most other folding bike aficionados have no problem with hand brakes. Saint Brown included.

Please post a link to that thread, because it sounds like pure awesomness.

I have to confess, this thread got me thinking back to the R600Durace "dropped a poseur today" thread that was so humorous many years ago over on the road forum.(http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...161&highlight=)

I too would like to see the thread mentioned above posted as I need a good humorous read.

That thread was cross posted in Commuting too
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=200376

I missed the commuting version of it. I still wear my R600Durace "training is for wussy"/"sorry I have to drop you now" t-shirt now and again.

[edit] Just reread that thread, I was amused to see that I had read it before as I had posted to it![/edit]

I don't have abnormally long fingers, in fact they're probably a little shorter than average. I do this thing called "adjusting and fitting my bike properly".

Actually, a lot of bikes have these little screws on the levers you can use to do.. Guess what? Push the levers farther down towards the bars for people with shorter fingers :D. If you're having troubles, you could see if your levers have some of those adjusting screws, or you could go out and buy a pair from Shimano for $15 which do.

There is no reason any decent bike should be poorly adjusted/maintained/setup enough that the levers contact the bars, properly setup there should be enough space to accomodate the users fingers *and* the lever at full-force braking. Properly setup, you should thusly be able to keep both fingers on the bars *and* fingers on the levers, without worrying about reach or pinching.

P.S. you quoted my name as posting:

Originally Posted by Abneycat http://bikeforums.net/images/buttons/viewpost.gif No offense intended, but I'm going to guess you haven't actually had to a real emergency maneuver before.


And I'm going to guess that you make a habit out of ignorant guessing.

Guess what? This isn't my post. I guess you make a habit out of ignorant guessing.

Originally Posted by Abneycat http://bikeforums.net/images/buttons/viewpost.gif Hey makeinu, coaster brakes only work on the rear wheel. Stopping distances are WAY longer unless you're moving at a crawl, and doing any significant maneuver while applying only the rear brake will drastically reduce your level of control. Besides, you may not be pedaling while braking, but you might need to lift a pedal to prevent it from striking the ground -- which is hard to do if you can't backpedal.

It is true that stopping is not always the best course of action. However, being able to stop much quickly increases the number of ways you can respond. Besides, it's usually the best course of action for certain common situations like the right hook or when a car suddenly pulls in front and there's no good swerve option.

Stopping distances on a bike are too long for most emergency situations anyway and if you need to lift a pedal to prevent it from striking the ground then your bottom bracket is too low and you need to get a new bike.

The fact that braking distances aren't negligible is exactly the point. They are too long to be an effective course of action in most situations. Swerving is more important and more effective. And why wouldn't there be a good swerve option? You don't need a 10-12 foot window to swerve into like a car and you don't need as wide of a turning radius. When isn't there a 3-4 foot window to swerve into?

Not my post either. But since you got on about it, the answer to your question "why wouldn't there be a good swerve option?" is:

Because sometimes things get in your way. Don't count on *one* escape method alone, because one day you'll wake up from your daydream realizing your escape lane isn't there, and solid objects aren't a good thing to swerve into. Each option you leave open narrows your window of vulnerability.

I guess I didn't really think about this until I read this thread, but today on my ride, I felt completely in control with my palms resting on the grips and using my finger tips to slow down. In addition, I have to shift with my thumb and index finger, so I guess I some sort of juggler, eh?

I'm not sure I feel the same or would be as confident with a rear coaster/foot brake.

ok, gotcha, I'll try that when I can test ride a disc brake equiped bike :D

The problem with coaster brakes is that they're rear-wheel only, and the rear wheel has almost no stopping power compared to the front wheel. You can stop in a fraction of the time with the front wheel than with the back.
I've never felt that braking affected my control at all.
What really is dumb is SIGNALLING with your hands while trying to brake.

Oh, but it is. Enjoy.

http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php...+chain+makeinu

It also just occurs to me...please tell me that the dude who decided to replace his chain without a chain tool isn't going to go with a coaster brake only. Because that could get ugly fast when things go wrong.

Wow. Just wow.

OMG

and again
holy cow.

I change my opinion to: the heck with all brakes for the OP. Just jump off your bike at 30 mph.

Holy crap, are you trying out for the HH Wall of Words competition?

Thank you. That was quite entertaining. I particularly liked the using a hammer to remove a spark plug analogy.

This reminds me of...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teMlv3ripSM
Checking out for now.

Actually, this reminds me of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dy-nz...eature=related this :D