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Does anyone else have a problem with motorists not yielding

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Old 06-18-08 | 12:47 AM
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Does anyone else have a problem with motorists not yielding

My first spill on my new bike was when I slowing down to turn left onto a side street with a motorist at a stop sign waiting to cross my lane. He decided to try and dart past me, causing me to panic and grab the front brake too hard. I flipped over the bars, but was going slow enough that I was fine.

Today in the same spot it was the same situation with a big pick up truck. I was intentionally going really slow trying to make eye contact with the driver before making the turn. When I was nearly right in front of him, he decided to go and had to actually turn a bit to make it around me. I think since I was going so slow, he thought I was yielding to him while I was actually just trying to make sure I wouldn't get run over.

Just a few minutes later I was going straight and a car was trying to turn left across my path into a driveway. I kept up my speed this time but he tried to make it past me anyway. I held up an open palm to tell him to stop and he stopped barely in time. I realized later how close a call that really was.

On another day, I was going through a traffic circle and staring right at a motorist waiting to get into the circle. She started rolling forward and I pulled the same move of holding out my hand and that stopped her. Both times that I've done it I've mouthed "Stop" but not audibly. From now on I think I will just straight up yell "STOP" and just scare the hell out of people. It's worth being a little aggressive to avoid being put into dangerous situations. Motorists somehow think that no matter how fast a cyclist is going they don't have to yield.

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Old 06-18-08 | 12:57 AM
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This behavior has ramped up noticeably during my commuting season (compared to the last three).
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Old 06-18-08 | 02:10 AM
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Assert yourself. Every driver knows this forumula and will yeild to you because of it: Lawsuit > Auto > Cycle
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Old 06-18-08 | 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by condiment
Assert yourself. Every driver knows this formula and will yield to you because of it: Lawsuit > Auto > Cycle
I beg to differ. Motorists I've encountered this season are more concerned with their phone call, their misbehaving child, or daydreaming. Lawsuit thoughts happen after the accident.
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Old 06-18-08 | 05:29 AM
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I may sound like broken record here, but DO NOT think for a second that motorists give a crap about you. Think about this, the brain driving that vehicle is much, much less than 10% of the total size of the vehicle. Can you really trust that? I think not. SUV's are the bain of the bunch.
 
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Old 06-18-08 | 05:40 AM
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It could mostly be that they just don't see you. They are used to looking for cars and they may be staring in your direction without noticing you. As a car driver I've sometimes almost failed to see bikes, even though I ride a lot myself. You have to ride with the awareness that they may be looking right through you.

On my bike, I pre-emptively ring my bell a lot when I see I am converging with a car, to try to raise their alertness.

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Old 06-18-08 | 06:15 AM
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No. Never happened to me. But it happens to my wife all the time. SHe is a meek cyclist. My guess is that you are a meek cyclist. You probably look like you want to be taken advantage of.
BE big. Be seen. BE big in attitude. Yelling STOP is probably a good idea. Be right out there in the middle of the road, signal aggressively that you are turning.
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Old 06-18-08 | 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by cooker
It could partly be that they just don't see you. They are used to looking for cars and they be staring in your direction without noticing you. As a car driver I've sometimes almost failed to see bikes, even though I ride a lot myself. You have to ride with the awareness that they may be looking right through you.

On my bike, I pre-emptively ring my bell a lot when I see I am converging with a car, to try to raise their alertness.
Bell my butt...I holler at them!
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Old 06-18-08 | 06:21 AM
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There is one very busy all-way stop intersection at my commute to which I come from a little hidden dead end, and drivers are NEVER looking that way. A couple of times they almost slammed into me, even though I'm extra cautious around there.
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Old 06-18-08 | 06:25 AM
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They either yield too much or too little. In any case always have a plan 'B'. An amazing percentage of drivers are impaired, un-insured, or felons on the move. You aren't even on the radar. If you think they're worried about civil liability, your reality check bounced.
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Old 06-18-08 | 06:36 AM
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Are you using hand signals? Those really help. Running a bright front light at dawn / dusk helps too. As does bright clothing.
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Old 06-18-08 | 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by chipcom
Bell my butt...I holler at them!
yep! Pretty sure I've hit 120 dbl before.
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Old 06-18-08 | 06:44 AM
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On my route, I'm actually amazed at the number of good drivers. I take the lane and act with confidence.

I've noticed an amazing number of cars that wave me through a four way stop or let me go straight through so they can wait to make an oncoming left past me at a light.

In these long three weeks, I have made on observation. When it comes to vehicles passing you, it seems pretty consistent.

SUV's pass widest, Commercial vehicles next. Small cars such as corollas or jettas like to buzz you.

BMWs are friendly, Mercedes are rude.

Pickup trucks pass wide, but jam on the accelerator to make a point.

Caprice classics with 20's and a new paint job like to crank the volume at red lights.
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Old 06-18-08 | 06:50 AM
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Taxis cut as close to you as possible without hitting you.
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Old 06-18-08 | 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by maddyfish
No. Never happened to me. But it happens to my wife all the time. SHe is a meek cyclist. My guess is that you are a meek cyclist. You probably look like you want to be taken advantage of.
BE big. Be seen. BE big in attitude. Yelling STOP is probably a good idea. Be right out there in the middle of the road, signal aggressively that you are turning.
Trust me, you can be anti-meek and still get hit or almost hit. I'm very anti-meek, taking the lane where it makes sense and riding right in the middle of it, and I still get asshats who don't see me (despite helmet light running during the day), misjudge speed, or generally are clueless. I have people who blast past as I'm trying to cross, people who lay on the horn as they speed up, and people who slow down, act like they're going to stop, and creep by.

If I got any more aggressive, I'd be playing chicken, and I don't particularly want to die. This is something the VC evangelists don't get - there are many places where you can be as VC as you want, and cars will still do dumb stuff. VC has its uses, but it's not an antidote to vehicular stupidity.

The best weapon I have now is startling them, as you mention. I yell 'STOP!' very loud. That's the great thing about being in shape - it gives you a helluva lung capacity, and I use it. The other thing that I use is my helmet light - if I'm afraid someone doesn't see me as I approach from the side, I shine it in their direction briefly, enough to get their attention without blinding them.
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Old 06-18-08 | 07:31 AM
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Get an Air Zound
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Old 06-18-08 | 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Underbridge
vehicular stupidity
what you get when you adopt the 'monkey-see, monkey-do' addendum to vehicular cycling.
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Old 06-18-08 | 07:42 AM
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It doesn't help that most motorists are on autopilot.
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Old 06-18-08 | 07:51 AM
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The number of incidents you've had seems high given the time frame. I think it might come down to you not asserting yourself. I don't think it comes down to taking a lane/vc, but rather that motorists are reading your actions/intent incorrectly. ...of course it could just be bad luck with inattentive drivers, too.
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Old 06-18-08 | 08:14 AM
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Assertive, confident, and visible? Absolutely. And every situation carries its own judgement call.

One thing I'm sure of, though, is that if you expect the most stupid maneuver, you won't often be disappointed.
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Old 06-18-08 | 08:34 AM
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When you are doing all this slowing down do you have a stop sign or are you just slowing down because you don't know if the car sees you? Also are you keeping track of all the traffic around you? Sometimes I have to move more into the lane or move out of the right hand lane to pass someone who cuts in front of me when they are turning into a driveway.

All these things happen when I drive too some people are just careless and you have to operate your vehicle defensively. Heck they happen to my wife and she drive a huge F250 with a full box on the back with a big lightbar across the top.
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Old 06-18-08 | 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Underbridge
Trust me, you can be anti-meek and still get hit or almost hit. I'm very anti-meek, taking the lane where it makes sense and riding right in the middle of it, and I still get asshats who don't see me (despite helmet light running during the day), misjudge speed, or generally are clueless. I have people who blast past as I'm trying to cross, people who lay on the horn as they speed up, and people who slow down, act like they're going to stop, and creep by.

If I got any more aggressive, I'd be playing chicken, and I don't particularly want to die. This is something the VC evangelists don't get - there are many places where you can be as VC as you want, and cars will still do dumb stuff. VC has its uses, but it's not an antidote to vehicular stupidity.

The best weapon I have now is startling them, as you mention. I yell 'STOP!' very loud. That's the great thing about being in shape - it gives you a helluva lung capacity, and I use it. The other thing that I use is my helmet light - if I'm afraid someone doesn't see me as I approach from the side, I shine it in their direction briefly, enough to get their attention without blinding them.
I understand you can still have trouble, but being out there, being big, loud, and visible sure seems to help.
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Old 06-18-08 | 09:17 AM
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Net? No. I think for every driver that doesn't yield, I get another that will yield when they blatantly have the right of way. Especially drivers on the cell phone who will just stop. I mean right in the middle of an intesection. They got the green light, just go. That's it! I pretty much don't shout or say anything when I ride. If I do, it's usually "Just go!".

In all, I think my biggest problem with cagers is when they do a stupid move or misjudge, they compound the problem by slowing down or stopping in my path. Sometimes they will even say they're sorry. They need to clear the scene before they apologize. I saw the left hook coming, I aimed for the rear of the car, and if they kept going I wouldn't have to break stride and there would be no problems. But they stop. Right in front of me. "Just go!" When I'm about to t-bone a car I really am not concerned with the social atonement norms. If they left the area of where our paths converge as quick as they entered the area, there would be no problem. Geeze, that's what gets me.
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Old 06-18-08 | 09:21 AM
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Make yourself as visible as possible - bright clothes, bright helmet. Be confident and assertive - and yes, I know how hard that can be. Ride vehicularly when it makes sense to do that - I'm no VC evangelist, but there are many times that it makes a lot of sense, particularly when you're confident about it. And of course be sure you're riding predictably - no turning left at a stop sign from the right edge of the pavement!

None of these are a panacea, of course. Drivers will still do stupid things - sometimes because the don't see you, sometimes because they can't wrap their minds around the fact that a cyclist could be going faster than walking speed, and sometimes because they want somebody on whom to take out their frustration, anger, or anti-social tendencies. It may surprise you, though, how much the level of stupid behavior goes down when you're visible, assertive, and predictable.

Some of it depends on where you're located, too. I generally have very few problems with drivers when I'm out cycling - for a long time I thought it was just due to my superb skills, but eventually I came to realize that drivers around here are just a lot nicer than they are in some places. But my superb skills don't hurt anything.
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Old 06-18-08 | 09:28 AM
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People who confuse right of way (either taking it when it's not theirs, or trying to give it to me when it's not mine) are kind of the essence of the vehicle problems I have had.

A lot of drivers and pedestrians underestimate bike speed, too. I frequently have to yell at jaywalkers that "I'm going faster than you think I am!" (not said out loud - "and I'll be damned if I'll sacrifice this speed right before a hill because YOU are too stupid to look before you cross the street!")

I have decided that at intersections, if I'm waiting for a light and a car comes up beside me, I'm going to use sign language to tell the driver that I'm going straight through and that he will need to give me room (especially when I'm there first!) I got buzzed twice in one commute last week and it bugged me. Both men, both driving big pickups, both made eye contact with me and then crowded me out of the lane, both VERY surprised when I caught up () and politely asked them not to do that again.
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