Velocity Deep V vs. Dyad
 

I want to build up new wheels for my commuter and, after hearing many folks in favour of velocity in general, I decided to narrow it down to two contenders. My primary concern is strength and secondary is width. I get the impression that Dyads are considered tougher than Deep Vs, which could be a big factor since I'm around 200 lbs myself and tend to carry a lot of crap. But I've recently switched my current tires from 70-35 to 700-32. I doubt I'll want to go skinnier than 32s, but I could see myself trying to go has high as 38 in the future. But for the time being, I'm very happy with the 32s. Sheldon's page on the subject talks about interior rim width, but Velocity measures exterior rim width, so I'm a little confused about what works and what doesn't.

Depending on how much difference there is between exterior and interior measurements, it seems like the Deep Vs cover more of the range of tire I'm most likely to use, but given that the Dyads seem to be more geared towards weight and hard use, I really want to give them a fair shake.

Any thoughts from people who run either of these wheels?

The Dyad is stated at "24 mm" on Velocity's website, yet it's a bit narrower than the Mavic A-719 which is also 24 mm wide (exterior width).

You certainly can use 28 mm tires (real width) on the Dyad, but smaller than that would be a little bit tight. With narrower tires, you would risk scratching the rim if you fall in a crack i the pavement.
At the other extreme, I found that 37 mm tires (real width) work, yet look a bit wide on the Dyad. They look – and work – better on Mavic A-719 rims.

As for the Deep-V rim, it seems to be designed for 23-28 mm tires. 32 mm tires (real width) would be the widest possible.

Velocity included 32mm in tire size for Deep-v (per email from them). I have shwalbe Marathon plus 32mm on it and some time feel it squirm in a hard corner. I love the rim otherwise. It held me at 210, a child 30 # on a kid seat and pulled a second child on a trailer.

Eric

Thanks for the input. So it sounds like the Deep Vs are too narrow for me since they will take, at most, the narrowest tire I might want to use.
The Dyad sounds like it fits more in the range I want and that at least the two sizes I'm most likely to use, 32 and 35, should fit comfortably, with fatter possibly being a problem. That's good to know because I was worried that the Dyads would be too wide, but it sounds like if anything they may not take the fattest tire I might want to use.
I'll take a look at the Mavic A-719s, too. But it seems like I keep reading the words "Dyad" and "Bombproof" together, which is really what I'm hoping for. My current wheels need regular truing and fairly frequent spoke replacement. I'd really like to build something a lot sturdier for the next round.

Honestly, I don't think you'd have problems with 37s on the Dyad. Not to say that ericthered's input is false, but the Dyad is a plenty wide rim for it.

I rode 32s on my Mavic MA3s all winter, which are 19mm wide, and at 210 lbs, sometimes with child on rack or trailer, I never had ANY squirrelliness.

I'm not familiar with Dyad, but I had some Velocity Deep V's on my single speed.
They looked really cool but it was a major biatch trying to find tubes with valve stems that were long enough to give my pump enough to grip onto. And the valve stem extensions I had were kind of a pain. Just something to think about.

I agree with everything Michel said above.

I have Dyad rim on one of my wheels, but if I were to build it again, I'd have chosen Mavic A-719. Mavic has eyelets and accepts wider tires, but is more expensive. That's it in a nutshell for me.

Perhaps my preference for Mavic comes form the fact that most my wheels have Open Pro rims, and I got used to the look and feel?

Anyway: good luck whichever rim you choose.

Others may know more though.

Thanks for info everybody. I guess Deep Vs are totally out, but now I'll have to decide between Dyads and Mavic A-719s. They were not even on my radar before, so I'll have to do a little more digging on them. Thanks again.

I was sold on the Dyads as well and after some research ended up buying Salsa Delgados. Just another option for your evoked set.

KT

doooodd
 

i've seen a guy that weighs approx about 300lbs and he rocks velocitys.
you don't even have to trip.
i'd go with the velos.

Dyads are very nice rims. FWIW, I've run 50mm Big Apples on them with no problems (really like those tires a lot in the rain).

I had a wheelset built up with Dyads a couple months ago and I rock 32c Randonneurs. I weigh about 210 and frequently haul a messenger bag with a case of beer and a saddlebag full of stuff(grocery run!) on some crappy roads and trails and I couldn't be happier with the wheels.

FWIW, I just got the Dyads, but haven't installed them on my bike yet. They are with XT hubs and DT stainless spokes.

I'll have a report once I've ridden on them for a while. I liked the fact that they were about ~60 grams (per rim for a total of ~120 grams) lighter than the Mavics to which they are often compared.

I think I'll use them with 'gatorskins @ 700 x 28mm and perhaps with schwalbe marathons @ 700 x 35.

Check out the Velocity Chukker: http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=700

I think this has been discussed here before, but the Chukker is a bike-polo rim, and it was not compatible with rim brakes (bike poloists ride fixies without brakes). If Velocity have changed this to allow for brakes, then it might be useful for commuting (unless you use disc brakes or a fixie).

Well, since Gatorskins seem a bit narrow for their stated size, I'd be curious to know how they fit and ride on Dyads.

I'll try to remember to post about it. It'll be at least a week before I get the bike assembled, because of work/kids etc.

Yes, the 'Gatorskins in a 28mm size are just inside the lower limit for the Dyad rims, but that's on paper. We'll see whether the real world is different...

Wrong and ignorant information.

commuting on Dyad rims to the tune of 30 miles a day through the horrible city streets of Boston. Wheels are true and straight. Love them.

Another to throw in the mix I have had Dt Swiss TK series rims on my cross bike for three years, even when I ripped out some spokes all on the drive side in a freak accident the darn things still rolled me home. I take these on the mtb trails and all and they have held up have had them ever so slightly trued once. Have run between 25-38 on them no problems.

For what it's worth, I ride the 28mm Gatorskins on my Mavic A719's -- commuting, half-loaded touring, even winter training with the club. They come just a little out from the rim -- I wouldn't want them any smaller -- but I've had zero problems so far.

A general rule of thumb for determining internal width of hook bead rims when only external width is given is to subtract 5mm from the external width.

I am running a pair of 25mm Schwalbe Stelvio Plus tires on Dyad rims with no problems so far. The Stelvio Plus is a tire which, at least on the Dyads, is slightly wider than the liste ETRTO width. I would not want to go any narrower.

Same here. I got my 1st Dyad wheel when I had Peter White build me a generator hub wheel for the front of my commuter. I have the 32 spoke front. My bike weighs about 65 Lbs fully loaded (32 Lbs bike add to that a heavy duty U lock and cable, handlebar bag, saddle bags carrying my days food and drink, clothing etc, and you get to that weight). I weigh about 215 Lbs on top of that. The front wheel has been on for 4000 miles of year round commuting and looks just about as good as new. I finally had enough of the rear wheel breaking spokes on me (one full replacement under warrentee as well... OEM wheels tend to be suck). In the rear I now have a Dyad with 36 spokes and an XT hub, also built by Peter White. I've got about 1000 miles on that wheel and so far it is perfect. Neither wheel has needed even a tiny bit of adjustment. For the Summer I ride on 32mm Bontrager Hard Case tires. For the Winter I ride on 35mm Nokia W106. Both fit fine. The Dyads have been excellent wheels... infinitely better than the the OEM bontrager Cameo wheels. So the wheels cost as much as the rest of my bike, but they will last for years and years to come (as will the rest of my bike). Normal retail bikes in the USA just can't handle the stress of commuting when you weight just over 200 Lbs and you need to take a bunch of studd with you each day.

Happy riding,
André

+1. I actually have both of these rims right now and like the delgados better. I've been commuting and racing cyclocross on the delgados for over a year and have never had to true them. Nothing wrong with the dyads though.

I don't have experience with a variety of rims, but I've been running Dyads (40°) on my Co-Motion, with tires sized somewhere between 35 and 38, for the past six years. I commute about 7 miles daily with a decent load, sometimes pulling a trailer, and do the occasional recreational ride and longer tour. I'm quite satisfied with their durability. They certainly hold up to commuting in an urban environment, curbs and all. My son keeps telling me to keep my bike cleaner, especially my rims, but I'm rather lackadaisical about that. Which is probably why I now need to replace them - the brake pads have worn the rims down considerably. I plan to stick with the Dyads.

You may find this thread in the forum interesting - it talks about supposedly-undersized Dyad rims and their interactions with tires.

I'm surprised this old thread is still kicking around. I like the further input, though. I ended up building my rear wheel with a Dyad rim. I've built that wheel up three times now, owing to my having an awkwardly sized hub and having made some bad build choices. The first build was 2-cross with a Nuvinci hub. The Nuvinci is large and they don't recommend a 2-cross on anything but a 700c wheel, and then only if the rim has an interior diameter large enough to avoid a bad spoke angle. The Dyad, while not as deep as the V's, has enough depth that the 2-cross stressed the spokes at the rim. The rim also looked like it was stressed at the spoke holes, which concerned me, but ultimately it was the spokes that gave, rather than the rim, so I guess the rim is strong enough. When I rebuilt the rim with a 1-cross pattern, it was much better, at least as far as the rims were concerned. My spokes broke at the hub instead. My third build, using a 1X pattern and Wheelsmith spokes, has been strong and trouble-free since I put it together in August. I hope this build continues to last, but when it's replaced, I probably will try another type of rim. Partly this is because of my large hub. A rim with a larger ERD could be built with a 2x pattern, which would make me feel better (although in all reality a 1X is probably plenty strong given the relatively shorter spoke lengths). Also I will probably go with something with eyelets. The stress I was seeing at the rim bothers me even though I know that it was, in part, due to a bad spoke angle, I don't think the spokes were excessively tightened, so I'm concerned about the strength at the spoke holes, and I feel like an eyeletted rim might distribute the stress of tightened spokes more evenly. Also, and this is probably because I'm a novice wheel builder, I lost many spoke heads in between the double walls of the rim and spent way too much of my build time fishing them out.
So I like the Dyad well enough to keep rolling on it, but I will probably avoid them in the future, especially if I'm building the wheel myself.

For the front tire, I just got a pre-built, Handspun wheel with a Salsa Delgado Cross rim and a Shimano generator hub. For my own build, I probably would not have considered the Salsa, but, other than it being out of tru when I got it, the wheel has held up well for the whole two weeks I've been using it. For now, while I am not set up to carry much weight on the front of the bike, I'm not concerned about the Salsa Delgado, but if I were doing my own build, I would probably go with something else, and if I get the Old Man Mountain front rack I have my eye on, I may consider replacing that wheel rather than waiting to see if it can handle a larger load.

I also purchased a prebuilt Delgado rim with a shimano generator hub. I have had it for about 8 months now and it has held up phenomenally. I don't know if it came trued to perfection or not because my bike shop ordered it for me so they might have trued it when it arrived. However, I have not had to do anything at all to it concerning trueing. I have a Tubus front rack that I have carried 2 Ortlieb panniers on before and it has not had any problem at all with that. I have also taken the bike on some mountain biking trails in the area and it has been perfectly fine. And then there are the numerous potholes that exist in this area. It is my only mode of transportation so I have probably put about 4,000 miles on it so far. I am actually having a rear wheel built up for me with an LX hub and the Delgado rim.

I had Peter White build a set for me.......40 spoke, Dyad rims, Phil Wood hubs. Did the Southern Tier with them. I have 13,224 miles on the front wheel. About 4 weeks ago, had to replace the rear rim, so had Peter rebuild the wheel for me, and while he had it in, had him replace the bearings set. I had 13,013 miles on the rear wheel when I had a catastrophic event that damaged the rim I weigh 208 and commute 23 miles R/T most every day. In the 13,000 miles, I retrued them twice, and never had a spoke failure. When I am commuting, in addition to my 208 lbs, I usually carry about 10-15 lbs of "stuff". When credit card touring, I usually carry between 23-28 lbs of "stuff" including the weight of the panniers and handlebar bag. I run Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires, 700 x 28's. Works for me.

Wow, Rob_E! 2x? 1x?? Maybe it's just that I'm old-school, but I've never used anything less than 3x, and I've never had problems with spoke-hole stress or excessive spoke breakage. I think all my breaks in the past six years have come from a derailleur that jammed up and got forced into the spokes.

Maybe it's the tension that's causing the problems. The fewer the spokes, the more tension there is on any one spoke, and the greater the stress on any part. With 40 spokes, I was advised by Co-Motion to keep the tension lower to avoid greater overall stress on the rim. (Makes me wonder about those 48° wheels - not to mention penny-farthings!)

I do tighten my wheels pretty good, but it's withing tolerances, I think. The wheel is 36 spoke. The reason for the 1X pattern is the hub, which a very large diameter. I always build my wheels with the maximum number of crosses possible, that's why the first build had a 2 cross pattern, but the large diameter means using short spokes and a sharp angle where the spoke enters the rim. I've also built a 20 inch wheel where a 3 cross wasn't practical. Things you learn with gear hubs. I know it's preferable in some circles to save weight by omitting spokes and/or going with different spoke patterns that allow for shorter spokes, but I assure you, I went with the most spokes and most crosses possible for my build.

That is good to hear. I've heard of someone who's rear Delgado rim did not hold up when touring with a heavy load, that's what concerns me about overloading the rim. I am a pretty heavy load all by myself, so I wouldn't want to risk a wheel that wasn't known to stand up to heavy touring, but the front wheel takes so much less weight (especially since my current front rack is only rated for about 5 pounds) that I'm not worried about it, but it's good to hear of a front wheel taking some weight.