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Heavy downtown traffic: pass slowly on the right?

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Old 06-25-08 | 11:52 PM
  #26  
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On my commute there is a busy road with two lanes in each direction and a center turning lane. On my way in to work, I usually ride in the adequately wide shoulder (there is no parking on the street). On the way home though, I've been filtering past traffic on the right. However with two lines of basically stopped vehicles blocking my view, sometimes I can't see cars trying to turning left in front of the stopped cars and have nearly been left hooked. There is also a chance of being right hooked. In this situation, would it be safest to:
a) Filter on the right
b) Ride slowly in the mostly empty sidewalk
c) Filter through the middle
d) Filter on the left in the center lane (but sticking to the right edge of it)

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Old 06-26-08 | 07:09 AM
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I usually skip as many cars as I can- it's the biggest advantage of riding a bike! That said, I usually always lane split. It's definitely the safer way to do things. It all depends on the situation at the time. A lot of the time I'm just sitting there waiting for cars
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Old 06-26-08 | 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by EliteTempleton
That was awesome thanks!


No. It's not awesome. It's just plain stupid. Riding like that guy was is a good way of getting squashed like a grape. He rides in blind spots, in between cars that are too close together, near cars that are trying to make lane changes (which they may or may not signal), cars pulling out of parking spaces, etc. It's just dumb.

I'm not a timid rider but I wouldn't put up with riding in that kind of crap. Humans love grids and we've laid them out all over the place. I'd bet that within a few blocks there is a road that has far less traffic and far less headaches. Look at the world with bicycle eyes...not car eyes.
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Old 06-26-08 | 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
No. It's not awesome. It's just plain stupid. Riding like that guy was is a good way of getting squashed like a grape. He rides in blind spots, in between cars that are too close together, near cars that are trying to make lane changes (which they may or may not signal), cars pulling out of parking spaces, etc. It's just dumb.

I'm not a timid rider but I wouldn't put up with riding in that kind of crap. Humans love grids and we've laid them out all over the place. I'd bet that within a few blocks there is a road that has far less traffic and far less headaches. Look at the world with bicycle eyes...not car eyes.
Not trying to be an A-hole here but the guy that did that is one of these "Two League of American Bicyclists certified traffic cycling instructors demonstrate the advanced traffic cycling skill known as "lane splitting"". I know they are in Cali where lane splitting is legal, if certified instructors were teaching this skill, what is going on? I thought they communicated well, they were traveling at a manageable speed, I did not see any danger. The reason for my post is I am new at commuting, not biking, and I will probably do this through traffic. What are some other takes on this?
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Old 06-26-08 | 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by poopisnotfood
Not trying to be an A-hole here but the guy that did that is one of these "Two League of American Bicyclists certified traffic cycling instructors demonstrate the advanced traffic cycling skill known as "lane splitting"". I know they are in Cali where lane splitting is legal, if certified instructors were teaching this skill, what is going on? I thought they communicated well, they were traveling at a manageable speed, I did not see any danger. The reason for my post is I am new at commuting, not biking, and I will probably do this through traffic. What are some other takes on this?
Then it's even worse. As a certified instructor he should know that what he is doing requires skills far beyond those of people who are new to commuting. Newbies make all kinds of mistakes (even experienced cyclists make mistakes) and teaching them something where even a little bobble could place them between two large flat surfaces is beyond stupid.

California may allow lane splitting but they are in a very small minority. If you cycle in a state that doesn't allow it, expect to get very angry reactions if you try it. People just don't expect having a vehicle appear where they don't expect it.

Another issue is what happens when the lanes you are splitting suddenly start to return to a more normal flow? Now you are a small, slow vehicle in the middle of a rushing river with no escape route. And you just passed a bunch of people who may be pissed off about your maneuvers. Not likely the best time to ask them to be courteous. Think of how you'd feel in the same situation.

Better to find another route.
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Old 06-26-08 | 07:57 AM
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I see your point, and your suggestion to go over a couple of blocks makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
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Old 06-26-08 | 08:22 AM
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Well good luck with your commute if you are going slow enough (I'd say under 8 mph) and you keep your eyes open you should be fine on the left. I prefer the right but it does take getting used to.
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Old 06-26-08 | 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
No. It's not awesome. It's just plain stupid. Riding like that guy was is a good way of getting squashed like a grape.
Except that he didn't. I ride like that too and it's not that hard to predict where car might end up going. It's usually 'nowhere' depending on how much of a jam it is.
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Old 06-26-08 | 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by aMull
Except that he didn't. I ride like that too and it's not that hard to predict where car might end up going. It's usually 'nowhere' depending on how much of a jam it is.
Automobile drivers are predictable There's a whole industry out there making gobs of money betting otherwise.
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Old 06-26-08 | 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Catgrrl70
One thing I often run into here is drivers that see you coming, decide that they will not let you by and pull their vehicle into your route. So if that happens, back up, go around the other side of them b/c they've also usually pulled ahead and now can't move thier vehicle in any direction whatsover. And don't forget, always give them a friendly wave and a smile as you go by.
That happened to me yesterday. I was cruising along right in the middle of the lane when some lady looks right at my, pulls out RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME and runs a stop sign so I can't get along side of her and interrupt her cell phone call. She realized what she did (damn near hit me) and didn't want to talk about it...lol I made sure she knew she was number one in my book...

When it comes to stopped traffic, I just wait and feel it out. I PREFER riding in stopped traffic over anything else because, more or less, I know where the cars are all going...no where...then I just ride around/through/over them. You just gotta do what ever makes you feel safest.
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Old 06-26-08 | 12:22 PM
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Yes, I do not lane split/ride to the side if traffic is moving b/c of this potential issue. When a car is moving it's more dangerous, especially getting close to an intersection. For example, if autos are backed up at a certain stop sign, I'll ride to the right, slowly, until I get just behind the car at the stop sign (so I'm essentially 2nd in line). I'll never compete with that front vehicle and so far, never had an incident with the vehicle behind me (it's a wider street so I'm not blocking anyone anyway).
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Old 06-26-08 | 01:04 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
Another issue is what happens when the lanes you are splitting suddenly start to return to a more normal flow? Now you are a small, slow vehicle in the middle of a rushing river with no escape route.
Traffic doesn't suddenly start accelerating all at once, however. There's usually enough advance warning of when the traffic flow is going to pick up pace again that you can get through a gap and off to the side. It's easiest during the transition between the cyclist going faster and the cars getting to a faster speed themselves -- both the cyclist and the cars, for a few seconds, are going at about the same speed.

Originally Posted by cyccommute
Automobile drivers are predictable
(not picking on you )

I wouldn't say "predictable", but in terms of changing direction, they take longer to make a move than your average MUP just-bought-a-fitness-bike wobbler. I sometimes feel safer in traffic than on a MUP.
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Old 06-26-08 | 01:57 PM
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Sometimes I stay behind the cars, sometimes I filter through but only at a stop and if I have a lot of room.

Lane splitting is not legal here and although I've done it, it's only been under rare circumstances and for a a very short distance.
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Old 06-26-08 | 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cherrypicker
What do you do in that situation? Pass slowly on the right?
Sometimes.

Take the lane and go slowly with them?
Sometimes.

Stay on the right and go slowly with them?
Sometimes (not that often though).

Pass on the left somehow?
Sometimes.

It all depends on the situation. Some of the things to consider are:

* How much space is there between the cars and the curb, and how much is there going to be, say, past the intersection? If there is a bike lane, or a comfortably wide stretch, I'll often pass on the right. Illegal some places.

* How much space is there between two lanes of cars? Sometimes there isn't enough space on the right, but plenty of space to fit between the two lanes of stopped cars. Lane-splitting is fun. Illegal some places.

* How long is the congested stretch? If it's quite short, I might just take my space in line and crawl with everyone else. If it's half a mile long, I'll be passing the cars.
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Old 06-26-08 | 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracksSi
Traffic doesn't suddenly start accelerating all at once, however. There's usually enough advance warning of when the traffic flow is going to pick up pace again that you can get through a gap and off to the side. It's easiest during the transition between the cyclist going faster and the cars getting to a faster speed themselves -- both the cyclist and the cars, for a few seconds, are going at about the same speed.
A line of cars can...and do... accelerate very quickly once they have cleared a choke point. Case in point, I saw a cyclist split lanes on 15th St. in Denver going west. This is on a relatively steep hill and has about a 40 degree two lane turn with a light in the middle of the hill and the guy was filtering to the front of the line between the traffic lanes (not on the right). When he was about 4 cars from the light, the light turned green and everyone went. He was too slow to accelerate with the cars (it is a steep hill) and the road really too narrow for 2 lanes, much less a cyclist splitting those two lanes. He came very close to be squashed between the turning cars and had no escape route. It was a boneheaded maneuver. This road is narrow enough...and steep enough that filtering on the right side between the traffic lane and the parked cars isn't really a good idea.
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Old 06-26-08 | 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
A line of cars can...and do... accelerate very quickly once they have cleared a choke point.
Sure, but it's also usually possible to see far enough ahead and catch what's about to happen.

(usually..)

Case in point, I saw a cyclist split lanes on 15th St. in Denver going west. This is on a relatively steep hill and has about a 40 degree two lane turn with a light in the middle of the hill and the guy was filtering to the front of the line between the traffic lanes (not on the right). When he was about 4 cars from the light, the light turned green and everyone went. He was too slow to accelerate with the cars (it is a steep hill) and the road really too narrow for 2 lanes, much less a cyclist splitting those two lanes. He came very close to be squashed between the turning cars and had no escape route. It was a boneheaded maneuver. This road is narrow enough...and steep enough that filtering on the right side between the traffic lane and the parked cars isn't really a good idea.
If it really was that narrow, I can't say that I'd even be out there mixing it up with traffic, let alone trying to decide to split lanes or stay right. Most of where I ride has an "out" of one kind or another.

If there was a way for him to see the cross yellow or pedestrian signals changing, or even thinking, "Man, that light's been red for a while... it might change soon..", he would've had a better shot at getting out of trouble.
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Old 06-26-08 | 04:40 PM
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Old 06-26-08 | 06:23 PM
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I think cyccommute makes a good point.

Today I was biking along with another cyclist, and we came to a light with maybe 8 cars waiting. There was no room on the right, so I just slowed and waited but the other guy went lane-splitting. Watching, it seemed to me that any of the cagers could've opened a door (say to pull an errant seatbelt in, or the bottom of a dress or something) or reached out a window to stretch, or tossed a cigarette out, and the cyclist would've had a problem. And that's not even counting the motorists who change lanes really quickly with very little notice.

I'm not sure it's worth it. Too easy for something unpredictable to happen. My kids are waiting at home to see me, and I need a break from pedaling anyway. I think I'll wait or else creep by on the right if there's room and no one's moving.
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Old 06-26-08 | 07:05 PM
  #44  
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I only have one light on my commute where this is an issue. I hold my place in line.

A few times I work downtown. I take the lane or stay to the right or left depending on the situation.

Lane splitting is good until you make a mistake. I will never take those kind of odds.

I am sacrificing time for exercise and enjoyment (and of course at $4 a gallon, money). So what is an extra minute or 2?
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Old 06-27-08 | 12:36 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYPhVsgifBY
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Old 06-27-08 | 04:15 AM
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To answer OP: it all depends on one's judgment. You need to observe your local traffic patterns, and ride the way that feels safe to you.


Originally Posted by cyccommute
No. It's not awesome. It's just plain stupid.
I thought they were riding very well, if a bit slow; there was plenty of space and I haven't noticed them being in any obvious danger. Notice that they were always faster than traffic.

My only doubt was at an intersection, which I thought they crossed between lanes - I generally try to merge in and take lane when crossing one. But a lot depends on the local conditions - I guess that felt safe to them.

In other words: if you thought this was stupid, you probably don't support lane splitting under any conditions - just say so.




Originally Posted by cyccommute
A line of cars can...and do... accelerate very quickly once they have cleared a choke point.
It all depends on local conditions, but where I've ridden, there's always time to find a hole between cars and merge in when they accelerate. You really don't have to split lanes while being slower than traffic flowing around you, if that does not feel safe to you.

Yes: you can get in trouble when passing something long, like a truck towing a trailer, that will accelerate to a higher speed than yours. When it takes off, there might not be enough time for you to overtake it and merge in front of it (or it might seem too risky), and by the time it passes you, the vehicle behind it might be already tailgating it.
But it comes back to knowing local conditions. If there are a lot of trucks, buses, etc - then perhaps merge behind one when it's still stopped (and wait). If the traffic accelerates too quickly for you - sure, don't split lane. And if the traffic drives too fast after certain point, and you don't feel safe even taking lane - by all means, find another route.


Your example of splitting lane while climbing and turning does not look at all like the video we saw, right?


Others may know more though.
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Old 06-27-08 | 04:34 AM
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The idea that experienced cyclists will wait in a line of stopped or very slow cars as if they were themselves a car is just ridiculous, and it negates one of the primary advantages of riding a bicycle in traffic. It's also very dangerous to ride in such a dogmatic way. There's a great danger of being rear-ended, for one. And then there's the problem of sitting there waiting as car, truck and bus exhausts spew their noxious fumes right in your face. The best policy has always been to combine vehicular cycling with common-sense defensive cycling. Yes to observing traffic signals and other rules of the road signage, but no to becoming another car in bumper to bumper traffic. I absolutely always go to the head of the line when I can, because that's the best way of being seen. "Splitting lanes" is not in my vocabulary, because I consider any available space to be fair game (except the sidewalks).
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Old 06-27-08 | 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by cherrypicker
Today I was biking along with another cyclist, and we came to a light with maybe 8 cars waiting. There was no room on the right, so I just slowed and waited but the other guy went lane-splitting. Watching, it seemed to me that any of the cagers could've opened a door (say to pull an errant seatbelt in, or the bottom of a dress or something) or reached out a window to stretch, or tossed a cigarette out, and the cyclist would've had a problem.)
Are you that paranoid? O oh no a cigarette butt, jump for cover! Anyway sitting behind a line of cars is pointless. Go in front you're on a bicycle not a car.
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Old 06-27-08 | 07:40 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by bjornb
!!!WOW!!! Fender well hanging looks dangerous and exciting at the same time! I don't think I will be doing any of that or lane splitting in oncoming traffic. I also noticed the police in the cruiser never got them or perhaps never even tried. Blasting through the middle of all those picnickers had to be exciting for them as well.
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Old 06-27-08 | 07:59 AM
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Reasons it's a good idea.

1. You stay in the flow of traffic. If you pass on the right or the cross walk you put yourself into another street and have to remerge into traffic.

2. Cars see you more often than not and you're already taking the lane on the other side of the intersection. Staying visible keeps you safe.

3. You're less likely to be hit by a car in your lane turning right into the intersection on the spur of the moment.


I slow down if the light has turned green as I pull up. I don't try to overtake cars.

If it's a really busy and large intersection I usually stop.
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