Just wondering, have you tried one of the titanium nitride-coated chains from KMC? This is sure to be more corrosion resistant, although I wonder if it's worth the money for you to try!

im curious to what happens when you suck debris up into it, chunk of salt? stick? stone?

That's what would happen.

??? I'm willing to ride in 110°+ weather too. But it still rains here even in the summer, then I'm back to cleaning and lubing again. Perhaps what you meant is, that's why you're glad you don't ride on gravel roads and live in a temperate climate?

Haven't seen those. I might try them... OMG I just went and googled them. $50 for a chain? I'm paying $5 now. I've tried $15 chains and they don't last a moment longer than $5 chains. For $50 it'd have to last 18000 miles to break even. I don't believe that it could last that long.

It looks like in order to get one you have to get their ultralight chain, which I have no interest in.

It's a toothed belt.
It's only a problem on steep climbs-but it's not a problem I experience on chain bikes.

Worksman is pretty heavy-my folder is a sub 20 lb bike.

Just to show what the conditions here are...

Here's a photo of my chain on Sunday. This is typical if I lube and wipe down on Wednesday night, then ride Thursday and Friday, and go out to do pre-ride maintenance on Sunday. The curves you see there are the shape of the cog that it was on when I stopped; the chain wouldn't bend much.
http://www.hauntedfrog.com/gallery2/...usty+chain.jpg

So two days of riding, then 1.5 days of sitting in the garage. It took me 20 minutes to get the chain back to working condition again; I have to apply oil (for winter I'm using 30W motor oil, though I've tried different stuff) and then I have to manually flex each link to break it loose; some are tight enough that they leave indentations on my fingers when I push, before they finally snap loose and the oil works into the joint.

Here's typically what my bike will look like after cleaning it then riding it the 11 miles to work:
http://www.hauntedfrog.com/gallery2/...Dirty+bike.jpg

Wow. Michigan seems ... like a lovely state.

It absolutely is. I certainly wouldn't want to live somewhere without winter. As it is we don't really get enough snow to have proper fun. I used to live farther north and winter was great up there.

In the winter I can put on a jacket, and in the summer it never gets so hot that I don't want to be outside. We get to enjoy the entire year. In most places where there isn't a cold winter, the summers are at least partially unbearable.

for what these bikes will likely be used for, i'm sure it'll do just fine. for belt drive bikes, also look at spot bikes

Still expensive in Europe....
 

I'm really curious about these bikes, but being heavier i'm worried that the belt would slip alot. and i know that with the carbon and kevlar construction they arent supposed to stretch easily but how true is that? due to chain stretch and wear i have to replace it and the cassette about once a year, so i usually don't worry much about lube and just buy new parts in the early spring.
if the belt drive could save me money and keep an oil slick off my linoleum, i'd be pretty interested in it. but no way im considering it until the technology can prove itself.
another concern is road salt, can the belts stand up to that corrosion?

also on the subject of michigan roads: opening a car wash in michigan has got to be a sound investment.

I don't think the belt will stretch at all. You have to watch out for breakage

My first was under a grand (have had that one for a while).
#2 was about twelve hundred.
I laced the wheel on the second myself.

And I thought it was just MY chain doing that! I have seen more chain rust after 3 winter rides than I did the entire 12 years I owned the bike. But I think you win.. mine has never locked up.

That's why I suspect Trek didn't include a belt case. Too bad, really.

Schlumpf mountain drive plus a gear hub looks a bit cheaper, though less simple than a Rohloff. Don't know if the hubs can handle the torque, though. Maybe a speed drive with a small chainring.

If HP Velotechnik offers a belt drive on the Roholoff-equipped Grasshopper fx, though, I'm not going to wait until I break my Haluzak (don't ask:() to replace it.

I have two problems with that bike;it comes in too many colors to choose from,and I can't buy it here. :o

My Harley weighs about 650lbs without me. 25K miles and the original belt has tons of life left.

Harleys have been running belt drives since the 80's.

Lots of Harleys get ridden in the winter(police bikes for example). I've never heard of a single issue with salt or road chemicals.

All I have to do is not ride for 2 days, and it's frozen. Was again last night, and many of the gaps between rollers were clogged solid with rust-colored ice. I really need to start lubing on friday night before I let it sit for a few days.

FYI, this chain is new, it's been on the bike for 3 weeks now.

One bonus is that since I've switched from the crappy $12 freewheels that the bike shipped with to freehub+cassette, the cogs aren't all worn out after one worn out chain. I think the freewheels must be made of really junky steel.

if the belt slips on your harley you probably wouldnt even notice, if the belt slips on a bicycle while im mashing the pedals after a light turns green, i could crash.

I get the same thing commuting here in chicago. Unfortunately, the only way I have found to deal with it is to wipe the chain down with a rag after EVERY ride. Apply 'tri-flow' (works wonders), wipe dry. I can let it go for a day sometimes, but it is best to do every day when you are dealing with sub zero temps and alot of road particulates/snow/salt.
Hope it helps.

???

How could I not notice the belt slip? I'd definitely feel it if I was accelerating away from a light,or if I was using engine braking coming down a hill. And there would definitely be damage to the teeth. I'm also curious about your crashing concern;I've dropped chains on bikes and never crashed from it.

Comparing the difference in size between a Harley belt and a bike belt,vs the difference in size between a Harley and a bike,I'd say there's a very good chance that the bike belt is overbuilt. The only way I could see it failing is from long use or some manufacturing defect(which occurs in a percentage of all products). As someone who has dealt with belt drive on his vehicles for the past 13 years,I'm saying your concerns are wholly unfounded.

Is that really the best excuse your paranoia could come up with?

That's weak. :lol:

So to make sure I understand this; belts are better because...

• I have to buy a specific bike from one of the 3-4 manufacturers currently producing belt-friendly frames. A total choice of maybe 10 different frames I can choose from?
• Use an IGH [which is heavier and less efficient than a chain/derailleur setup]; but not just any IGH as some of them are not even supported with cogs that fit yet.
• Choose a gearing and buy a belt in the correct length from a dealer since these belts are not sold online or in department stores. If I want to play around with a couple different gearings, I'll need to buy a couple different belts.
• If my belt breaks, is damaged, or I want to change gearings, I have to order a new belt for whatever the LBS wants to charge me (again, I can't just buy a new belt at Wal-Mart like I would with a chain) and wait a week [bikeless] while the shop orders it.

I'm not saying that no one might get benefit from a belt drive but most of the cycling public has no need for one. The only benefit I can see from belts is "not having a chain to lube or rust".

IMHO belt drives will never be more than a curiousity on a few select bikes. The technology isn't new- people have been proposing the idea of belt driven bikes since shorlty after the invention of the "modern safety bicycle". I think the fact that Harleys use belt drives is irelevant since (A) Harley Davidson isn't exactly known for precision engineering or cutting edge technology and (B) most other motorcycles still use chains (or shaft drives). If belts were so great [even on motorcycles], why don't Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Honda use them on all their motorcycles as well?

That's my $0.02

Yikes, Too much common sense! Must keep repeating - its the latest thing, must have, MUST BUY; NOW!

Belt drives IMHO are like all things new and different. Its a product which may not have a current market but offers actual advantages over the current system.

Back in the 80's Mavic introduced the Zap electronic shifting. It was OK, and did basically what the belt drive is doing: intorducing a product with some advantages over the then current cable system while at the same time introducing some negatives. Was it a bad idea? No clue, but Campy is currently working on their own Electronic groupo.

Changes that produce ZERO added benefits will never survive in a market economy. But if you look at some of the first electronic shifted cars with a mechanical clutch, one could argue that they were a waste of time too. The first F355 F1's would burn through clutches like water. There was a recall of some of the first M3 SMG systems. That system too brought much complexity to a simple system (hydraulic actuated clutch + driver input for matching engine revs and crank speed)..... and many thought it to be a waste of time.

Fast forward 10 years and the new Gallardo and F430's go through clutches faster than a manual clutch car, but they also shift faster than Michael Schumacher and are very livable day to day (which could NOT be said for the first F-cars that had the F1 shifting).

Just because the chain, currently, is the best all-round method for transferring power to the drive wheel, while balancing other factors like replacement cost, avalibilty, and complexity, does not mean its a dumb idea.

I like all my chain driven bikes, but I would also love to add a SPOT Carbon Drive MTB to my garage.

Paranoia???? all im saying is id never buy a belt drive bike until i talked to someone who i trusted about their performance.
and i think its pretty damn easy to fall over when you put all your force and body weight on a pedal and it just gives way with no resistance.

Right now. How many companies produced,say,full suspension frames when they first came out? Now they're commonplace. I think most of us can agree that we wouldn't want to commute on the street on a FS bike,but they definitely have their place. Same with belt/IGH bikes. Wouldn't want one for the TdF,but very nice to have for commuting,esp in bad weather.

See above.

Again,this is still new tech. I can see them becoming more commonplace in the future. As for gearing changes,you could get more gear combos with one belt by utilizing an EBB or sliding dropouts. You also need to consider that they may come up with a way to change belt length;perhaps a belt made of links,or maybe a way to use some kind of tape or epoxy or summat to rejoin a belt together.

FYI,I've never touched the gearing on my Otis,Dixon,Flyby,or my old Milano. I only regeared my 1x1 because it started life as a SS MTB,and the hub came off a tandem. I've found most stock IGH bikes are geared pretty well,and I live in a hilly area.

See above. Also,what if they started using already available belts,like say those used for industrial or automotive applications? Then you might be able to go to Home Depot or NAPA to get a belt,and because of the scale of production it would be cheaper.

Your first statement shows you have no experience with Twin Cam engines. Sport bikes don't use belts because when used for racing they change gearing constantly,the chains are thinner so they can route around fat tires easier,and noone has put any developement into creating belts whose length can be varied. Dirt bikes don't use them because of regearing and because currently chains are easier to repair in the field. Chains are in use on most other bikes because of economy of scale;they're out there and already in use. Some metric cruisers do use belts.

ABS used to be a novelty on motorcycles. BMW had one special addition model with it. Then they started offering it as an option on many of their models. Now I believe it's standard on their entire line(don't know about the singles) and you used to have to special order a bike if you didn't want it. Many other touring and sport touring bikes come with it as well.