(Cross post from Touring forum, which doesn't get much action.)

I plan to order a new frame soon for my commuting bike, but I'm having trouble deciding between cantilever and long-reach brakes. I've already got some long-reach brakes that I picked up on-line a while ago with this build in mind, but a couple of the frames I am considering are only available with fittings for canti brakes. I will use this bike for commuting 3-4 days/week but might occasionally do some weekend tours.

I've never used canti brakes before, so I am concerned about some of the things I've heard -- namely that they can be hard to adjust, they tend to squeal. Are those legitimate concerns, assuming the brakes are set up properly? Are there any real advantages to cantis for my intended purpose? Would they be any better than LR brakes in rainy weather?

I have no need for really wide tires on my bike since I commute on decent roads, generally with 25 or 28 x700c tires. So long-reach brakes should accommodate my tire needs just fine. The LR brakes I've got are some really nice, brand new Shimano Ultegras.

Finally, if I go the canti route, any recommendations on brands or models would be appreciated. I'm leaning toward Shimanos since I've got a mix of Ultegra and Dura-Ace components already on my bike, and I've always had excellent experiences with their products.

They can be a bit fussy compared to road calipers. They can also be much more powerful. Look at Paul brakes. I run them on my CX bike (which sees more commuter duty than anything else) and they are about as good as they get. A custom build of your nature would have me looking very closely at road disc brakes.

With that tire size I'd go for the LR calipers. Cantis are great but you have absolutely no use for them.

i have lo-grade cantis... i am not a fan. personally i would go with long reach. there seems so much discussion about probs with cantis even with proper set up...yet the weird thing is everybody loves their crosscheck so they must work for some people...maybe i would be happy with pauls...not sure...

[QUOTE=tarwheel;7996460](Cross post from Touring forum, which doesn't get much action.)



I've never used canti brakes before, so I am concerned about some of the things I've heard -- namely that they can be hard to adjust, they tend to squeal. Are those legitimate concerns, assuming the brakes are set up properly? Are there any real advantages to cantis for my intended purpose? Would they be any better than LR brakes in rainy weather?


oh, to add, my experience is that they squeal (in the rain), and they shudder, and i find them hard to adjust...but like i said, i have cheapos...veyr interested to hear that the Pauls are as good as they get, does this mean they are as good as calipers?

I have bikes with both - cantis are definetly more 'powerful' than LR.

And can be a bit louder but the chunky ones shudder less (Shimano BR-R550's are very solid!) and Avid radically redesigned their canti arms for 2009. haven't heard to many user reports back yet as their are still pretty new. Canti squeal is usually easily combated with toe-in.

IF I were commuting with typical commuter loads, in a town with hills, where it rains sometimes, I'd go with cantis like the BR-R550's. keep the long reach brakes for your long distance road bike.

A comment and a question:

1. I have two bikes that I bought used that both have canti brakes -- A mid-level Miyata 610 touring bike (from the early 90's), and a lower-mid priced Univega mountain bike that I use for my winter beater. The brakes on the Miyata work great with no squealing or shuddering and I haven't adjusted them yet. The Univega brakes have worked well also, although I have had a very little squealing a couple of times, but I know I really need to have the pads replaced. The pads are old and worn.

2. If someone intends to have fenders (or studded tires) are they a lot easier to fit with cantis than with long-reach brakes? I don't know the answer but it might be something to consider.

I can't think of a studded tire that would fit under a 49-57mm long reach brake caliper. I haven't tried my Hakkapalittas underneath them but 700c studded tires are pretty chunky!

An unmodified fender set underneath a long reach brakes usually will limit the rider to some low profile 30-32mm tires but usually 28s.

Canti's on my higher end specialized tri-cross have been wonderful. Cantis on my low end touring bike (Jamis Aurora) have been squeeling from day one. A trend of lower end canti's being squeelers?

+1. My Tricross has the BR-R550s as mentioned in this thread. Excellent cantis.

I'm a big fan of canti brakes. Newer designs on traditional canti geometry have made it such that the difficulty in adjustment and pad alignment, and the horrible squealing are a thing of the past. Many companies have brought back the wide-profile traditional MAFAC canti design (PAUL, Velo-Orange, and Tektro) which is insanely strong. The incorporation of fully adjustable V-brake cartridge pads means that you set the brakes up once, and you're good forever; no more farting around with pad alignments every time you replace them. The drawback is necessitating a very long straddle wire, and the wide profile can cause mounting problems with certain rack/pannier setups. Short chainstays and big feet could mean heel-snag for some riders, too.
Low-profile cantis solve the clearance issues, but they're not as mechanically advantaged as wide-profiles. Still, they're very strong and you have many of the same advantages in adjustment. The BR-550 road canti gets high marks consistently, despite my personal bias against them.
LR Calipers will give you a cleaner look if you're aiming for that Euro-continental design, but the longer arms put things at a mechanical disadvantage when compared to a standard reach caliper. The right pads and good adjustment will still give you plenty of braking power in rainy situations, and you shouldn't have clearance issues with only running a 28mm tire. Depending on your weight and how much you haul around on a routine commute, you might be better off with the cantis.

If you do go with cantis, don't cheap out. Aside from toe-in issues (easily fixed), lower tolerances on the pivot bushings and lower strength of the canti arm lead to the dreaded squeal with cheap cantis. My Tektro CR720s haven't squeaked once, and I have a couple of 15 - 18% grades I descend, with a stop sign and busy cross street at the bottom so I've got to come to a halt.

I wouldn't worry about cantis vs calipers as a deciding factor either way.

Cantis do have more power, but calipers with good pads have enough power to stop a road/commuting bike just fine.
Cantis have better clearance for big tires/fenders, but calipers have enough clearance for normal-sized fenders and tires.
Cantis are harder to setup, but not that hard.

Given two otherwise identical frames, I'd pick the one with calipers as a personal preference (some people might go the other way). But if the frame you want only comes with cantis, don't worry about it.

I got cantis on both my bikes and love them, though I would be lying if I didn't say that they are a little tricky to setup and if you ride it alot it seems that they require some occasional adjusting. Then on very humid days they will squeak the first few brakings when I bring them out from a cool dry apartment. I have avid 6 and chepo tektros. The tektros seem a little more finiky to setup but the adjustibility of the stradle cable is nice. The avids seem to stay centered better (though they are newer). I think stopping power between the two brands is the same and they have the same pads on them. No real experience with long reach couldn't say only test rode a bike with them once.

Cantilevers are just about the best braking system out there in my opinion, although I haven't tried disks much. They are a bit more finicky to set up, but they have the added benefit of not only being more powerful, but also more adjustable, and much more versatile.

You can set them up (with no more than an hours work) to stop on a dime, modulate well and never squeal. They can take just about any range of tire you can imagine, and can even have the mechanical advantage modified to suit your taste.

Not only that, but even the cheap ones work well when set up properly. I ran with a set of cheap altus cantilevers, with koolstop pads, and never had an issue, until i switched to some more blingy dia-compes.

Go with cantilevers, read the sheldon brown page, don't spend the hundreds on pauls, it's not that they aren't good, they're just really expensive.

Thanks for all of the info. I feel much better now, as the frame I am leaning toward requires canti brakes. That will also make it easier to mount racks and fenders. I can eBay the long-reach brakes I already have if I decide to go the canti route.

Tektro CR720 canti brakes.
Cheap ($20/wheel), easily adjustable, and great stopping power. When you burn through the stock brake pads (which are decent, not great) replace with the dual compound Kool Stops.

Get Shimano BR550 cantilevers. They use regular v-brake cartridge pads, so they are easy to adjust. Mine do not squeal when properly toed in.

Discs are nice, but man alive do they ever squeal! I'm sure there's a trick to getting them a little quieter than what I've heard around here; but I haven't seen anyone up here who can keep them quiet, especially when it's wet out.

Pauls are expensive (moreso than they ought to be, IMO) but they're worth the money. The machining on the pivots is phenominal, and the square-wire springs are considerably more durable than a traditional round-wire spring. Plus, they just look great.
I'm happy with my Tektro CR720s, but you can bet that I'd replace them with a pair of Pauls if I had the money laying around.

It's just, who has the money. Some quite research shows that paul brakes are not quite worth their weight in gold, but they are close. If I had the money to spend on brakes that cost as much as my bike, maybe I would, I just feel that same money can go to better places. Especially given that they seem to solve problems I've never had (I've never had an issue with durability, never wore out a spring and never had trouble stopping on a dime with even the cheapest brakes out there).

Cantilevers should be banned. Never had a cantilever brake that works properly. I have no idea why all bikes haven't converted to V-brakes yet. They're the only easy and reliable rim brake out there.

Wide profile cantis don't clog with as much snow/slush as V-brakes. The stopping power of a good pair of wide profile cantis is equal to a pair of V-brakes. Lastly, certain V-brakes don't have the clearance under the through cable for big tires and full fenders.

+1 on the Tektro CR720, they are fantastic. I tried Avid and Oryx prior to these, with every possible adjustment and pad combination. Until I got the CR720, I could not find a long term fix to front canti brake squeal. An I did not have to micro adjust the CR720 or mess around with the V brake pad adjustments. They are great brakes and worth the price of around $25-30.

out of interest, how do shimano deore LX rate? i just checked and that's what i've got.

I didn't even bother with toe-in, and mine don't squeal. Note that the shorter, and straighter the straddle-cable is, the more powerful they are. They come with two cables, but due to my fenders, I had to use the longer cable.

Older LX and XT brakes, (as well as XTR), used to have the 4-pivot design which keeps the pads parallel to the rim as the pads move. But now the cheap b*st*rds at Shimano have dropped the 4-pivot design on LX and XT and gone back to the cheap fixed pad, (except on XTR). If I had the fixed type, I would find some New-Old-Stock or buy some used 4-pivot units.

(I actually have some 4-pivot LX brakes on a frame I just stripped for other parts.)