How cold does it have to get to have freezing rain?
 

I'm here in the California central valley. Tonight it's supposed to rain, and then get really cold - like maybe down to about 29 or 28F.

Will that cause the kind of rain that made me fall on my butt once on a very wintery night in Delaware? Like when the streets turn icy. Or does it need to be colder?

Also, what's more dangerous, driving in it or riding my bike in it?

It's the rain that freezes on the ground that's dangerous. If your ground has been cold for the last few days then it might freeze over creating black ice. But it's at night so the snowplows should get the salt and sand down.

Ground needs to be at or below freezing for "freezing rain". What basically happens is regular rain from warmer air aloft hitting a below freezing surface. FWIW that is what we are having tonight in central oHIo...after an inch or so of fresh snow:(

Aaron:)

Both. It's not your bike or your car: it's all those OTHER cars.

I told a coworker today: "I have gear to protect me from the cold. I have gear to protect me from the wind. I have gear to protect me from the rain. I DON'T have gear to protect me from Billy Bob Joe who thinks his 4WD can handle it."

Choose life. Take the car. :thumb:

Snowplows in Sacramento?

If you have studded tires - cycling is just fine (the drivers may be a problem, though).

By 'just fine' I mean that the challenges associated with riding on slick ice are manageable, so long as you don't require lightning fast manouvers and are not dealing with steep hills (they suck up or down on slick ice).

My commute is probably the flattest, straightest 14 miles known to man.

Roads start getting slippery at just above the freezing point. Since you're in CA, there's no point for you to invest in studded tires. I'd just drive.

whatever. Take the car and burn it. If you can't bike you definitely can't drive.

I thought freezing rain was rain that froze before it hit the ground. Where it's warmer aloft, then passes through colder air and freezes. The stuff that stings when it hits you.

Anyway, the ground may be warm enough that it won't freeze everywhere. Beware of bridge decks. Stuff freezes on those surfaces before anyplace else so the roads might seem fine, but they're not.

If the ground has not been below freezing for days then freezing rain is unlikely to be anything but water soon after it hits the ground. I've ridden if freezing rain scores of times, no studs no worry. It stings your face a bit, so protective eyewear is a smart move. But no reason not to ride, and no reason to think you need studded tires for that.

Choose to live life fully, choose to ride.

Technically, 32 is cold enough for ice. I know, Duh! :rolleyes: Like some have said it's a matter of not just how cold but for how long. You might have enough heat from the ground to have no ice at 28F, but don't count on it. You might wind up in a patch of ice and on your butt at 32.

I'd say that in fringe conditions, which yours sound like, you're more likely to hurt yourself on your bike. The car won't fall down, if you're stupid you'll get a fender bender, but as long as it is just lilttle isolated patches of ice and you're not really stupid, you're not going to break your collarbone in it.

Now I'll be a different manly man when my stud tires show up, but you'd be crazy to consider them. If you're worried, skip a day.

+1. If I'm going to get hit by a car, I'd much rather take it while strapped in a car than while riding a bike.

P.S. the little "watch out for winter" light in my POS Volvo goes on at 35 deg. The Swedes are onto something there, thermal anomalies, etc. But they know. Yan, are you one of them?

I commute Davis-Sac and will not to ride tomorrow. I'm not usually a fair weather commuter either... I've reached my crash quota for the year and prefer not to risk it. :o

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freezing_rain

Probably going to have some tomorrow in the Portland area, and even over here on the 'coast', where I live. It's been below freezing since Sunday night on the coast, roads just barely thawed during the day, and it's been colder in the 'valley'.

+ infinity. With sprinkles on top.


I was talking to people at work today and they asked if I'd ride in tomorrow with the threat of all the snowfall.
I told them of course I will. And I'll have my camera so I can film all the dumbarses spinning out on the hills because they drove to work instead of staying home when they knew their ultralight hatchback handles for bollocks in the snow.

I will drive in 6 inches of new snow but I will not bike, - at least not on the streets.

A front wheel drive vehicle with decent tread on the tires actually does pretty well in snow if you know how to drive in those conditions. The worst that can happen (in really deep snow) is that you'll get stuck. Not convenient but not life threatening as long as you're not in the boonies. Of course you can't control what other drivers are going to do, so there are risks there.

Ice is a different matter. Studded tires help a lot. There not legal on cars here, so I will give the nod to bikes with studded tires for ice covered surfaces.

Cars with high performance tires don't do well in snow. They get squirrelly. Rear wheel drive ain't so great either.

Actually, rwd is great. Great fun, that is. It kinda sucks though if you actually gotta get somewhere.

As for riding a bike if there is even a chance of ice coated streets? Go ahead, if you have studs and there is zero chance of you sharing a road with any cages. If you chose to ride a bike on ice coated streets with cages, chuck darwin just might get him one today. Just hope your life insurance is paid up.

No, that's called sleet. If it stings when it hits you, you got no problems.

Along the lines of the "is a car safe, is a bike safe"...can we all just accept that the answer is a big "it depends" and stop trying to get each other to accept absolute, total, final answers? I had to drive to Boston on Monday along the worst-hit stretch of Route 2 -- the road was dry and clear...of ice. There were, however, numerous trees down across the guardrails, into the breakdown lanes and at times sticking into the travel lane. Imagine it, you're cruising along at 60 mph in the pitch dark and all of a sudden, "Whoa! White pine!" Bad weather causes all kinds of problems, and there is no rule of thumb and no gear that will make you "safe" in every situation. What makes you safe is good sense and judgment. "Better gear than good sense/a man cannot carry."

I live in Sacramento and boy howdy it was cold on the way in today (by NoCal standards: 28F). It's not impossible, but extremely unlikely we'll ever get freezing rain here (did get a tiny bit of snow yesterday, which is more likely, that just takes cold air). The ground warms up during the days.

I bet my commute's at least as flat as yours. I came from Kansas and I just laugh when people HERE tell me how flat Kansas is. If it wasn't for bridges and overpasses I could easily get by with a single speed.

Bridges and overpasses are what you need to worry about. I skip cycling when there is ice on the road or potential for it. We don't get enough icy weather in NC to invest in studded tires, and it's not worth the risk trying to cycle on icy streets in my book.

BTW, I rode to a group ride on Sunday a couple of weeks ago, when we had clearing rain, wet roads and temperatures hovering near freezing. It was about 33 F when I left home about 9 am, and I expected the temperatures to start rising. Instead, the temperatures kept falling and it was probably around 30 F when I reached the park where our rides start. I hit a patch of ice in the park, which caused my rear wheel to slide but I didn't fall. That made rest of my ride pretty sketchy at best. Although I didn't hit any more ice, I was totally paranoid the entire ride, particularly on bridges and shady downhills. I won't do that again.

In 6" of snow, the car might get through a little easier provided no ice... but if there's 6" of snow on the road why even bother going out? I know I have enough food in my house to hold me over till the plows come around.

Good point. People from warmer climates might not be used to seeing signs on the roads that say "Bridges freeze before roads" (or maybe they are, I don't know). They're a reminder that steel bridges get colder faster, and thus may ice up even though the rain is still liquid on the road. Or the snow and ice that melts on the road might not on a bridge.

I read that and thought, no way is he from Sacramento.

Then I read further and saw he's from Kansas. Ahhhh.... now it makes sense.

It takes a fellow Midwesterner to read Kansaneze...
Howdy dwilbur! And yer darn tootin' it's cold ! :D

IMHO, if the conditions are bad enough that I can't trust OTHER cars to not hit me, then I shouldn't be out in them in a car either. Here are the conditions in order from good to bad, IMO:

- roads are good, ride the bike
- roads are worse, ride the bike, look out for cars
- roads are bad enough that cars can't be kept in control - stay home.

Because 6" of snow is no reason at all to not go out in a car?

heck, I used to live in Michigan's UP, and I'd go out in 12 inches of unplowed snow in a Ford Probe, which had like 8 inches of clearance. I just had to drive slow enough so that the snow that was over the level of the front of my car didn't come slinging up and onto the windshield and blind me.

You can get around in really amazingly deep snow in a car, provided you know what you're doing and aren't in a hurry.

There are some snow depths that I probably would drive but not bike. For shallow snow and ice though, I'd always rather ride a bike.

Wilbur, you can definitely get away with a single speed in Sactown. The biggest "climb" on my commute is the Sutterville overpass near Hughes Stadium. I just get out of the saddle for a minute and that's it.

I've grew up in the Sacto Valley and I've seen snow flurries and hail, but never freezing rain. My only experience with that was living in Almaty, Kazakhstan. I was walking home one evening and when I reached my apartment I tried closing my umbrella but it was stuck. I yanked on it and then it "shattered." That was weird.

Well, it's not courting imminent death if you're sensible like you say, but I don't think that quite translates to "no reason at all not to go out in a car". Particularly if the 6" of snow is happening in a city, it can easily slow down traffic to the point of causing jams and gridlock, and every car makes the situation worse. Imagine someone who needs an ambulance to get through to them in those circumstances. Not adding to the problem, that's a reason not to go out if you don't have to, I'd say.

It's not how much snow, it's what KIND of snow.