Newbie's brain is about to explode
 

Hello!

Ok, I have researched so much I can't keep anything straight anymore.

My deal: I want to ride to work (10km each way) and also take some longer trips on the weekends (100+kms). I'd like to spend less than $1000. Daily route will have city roads that have some ups and downs and are way less than pristine in terms of potholes, etc...

I need some advice on commuter bikes. I have some specific questions related to what I've read:

1. Cyclocross vs. touring vs. hybrid (not the upright comfort-type hybrid - more like Kona Dew series). What are the advantages/disadvantages for all of these? Which is right for what I want to do?

2. Single speed - what is up with that? Do people buy these because they're less complicated = less problems? Doesn't it restrict what you can do with it, or at least restrict the efficiency you can do things with? Am I missing something?

3. Tires - I don't understand the numbers when I look at bikes. 700x28. What do those numbers mean? And what size do I want for what I'm doing?

4. Brakes - disc or v-brake? As I understand it, disc brakes make attaching racks and things more difficult? Do I really need disc brakes?

um... I think that's it for right now. Thanks for your help in advance!

have you been to your local bike shop yet? one visit and they and you might put all your researching to an end. They'll advise you on what they think will fill the bill, and you may fall for a bike sitting right there on the floor.

I'd get a touring bike with a triple chainring, 700x28 or 700x32 puncture resistant tires and at least a rear rack to start with blinky lights front and rear, and a trip computer. Of course get an under seat tool bag with spare tubes, tools etc and a good pump. Disc or v-brake, either is great. Cantilever brakes, not so great but if the rest of the bike suits you, I wouldn't pass up on it.

with that set up, you can cruise along at fairly fast speeds, or dilly dally along, climb any mountain, and even handle a hard pack dirt road. It will be a good commuter, tour bike and fitness bike.

have fun shopping.

1. Cyclocross vs. touring vs. hybrid (not the upright comfort-type hybrid - more like Kona Dew series). What are the advantages/disadvantages for all of these? Which is right for what I want to do?

The three types you list are similar. Touring and Cyclocross bikes will have drop bars, Hybrids will not. All Touring bikes & Hybrids will have attachment points for fenders & Racks. Some Cyclocross bikes, but not all, will also accept fenders & racks easily. All Touring bikes and almost all Hybrids can carry fully loaded racks without losing stability. Cyclocross bike are not always as stable when fully loaded, depending on model.

2. Single speed - what is up with that? Do people buy these because they're less complicated = less problems? Doesn't it restrict what you can do with it, or at least restrict the efficiency you can do things with? Am I missing something?

Single speeds require higher levels of fitness, gears make cycling easier and faster.

3. Tires - I don't understand the numbers when I look at bikes. 700x28. What do those numbers mean? And what size do I want for what I'm doing?

700 is a industrial standard for wheel type, 28 is a nominal value for tire width.

4. Brakes - disc or v-brake? As I understand it, disc brakes make attaching racks and things more difficult? Do I really need disc brakes?

Disc brakes offer improved performance is wet & dirty conditions and improving stopping ability. They also manage heat better than rim brakes, this can be important on long hills. Depending on how you use the bike, disc brakes are a needed upgrade or an un-needed extra expense.

Don't forget to budget for $200 or so in accessories. Good luck.

MM

The "700" in "700 x 28" refers to diameter. "700" (sometimes referred to a 700c) is the standard size for road bikes and many hybrids.

"28" in "700 x 28" refers to the width of the tire. A 700 X 23 tire is skinnier than a 700 X 28 and would typically be used for racing or somebody who's more concerned about speed than comfort. A 700 X 50 tire is getting into Mountain bike territory.

Speaking of Mountain bikes, they typically use 26 inch wheels instead of 700C wheels. 26" and 700c are the two sizes you usually see on adult bikes (though there are others). Some hybrids and some smaller road bikes will use 26" wheels too.

A touring bike is made for carrying stuff and going long distances. A cyclocross bike is meant for racing on sandy, grassy, and muddy surfaces. If you put slicks on a cyclocross bike, it can make for a "sportier" commuter than a touring bike. Both can make very good commuting bikes.

There is no single "best" bike for commuting. I recommend you try a bunch and see which you like.


Hybrids are all over the place. There are many different types. Some are pretty much road bikes with straight bars.

Cyclocross: Basically, a bike race around an off-road obstacle course. Many bikes marketed as 'cyclocross' do in fact come with attachment points ("braze-ons") for racks and fenders-- as such, they are as well-suited for commuting as they are for CX racing. Will also handle a decent amount of off-road riding if you're not too stupid about it. In my opinion, CX bikes are about as close as you can come to a 'do it all' bike. However, if you're not planning on doing any off-roading, a road bike will be lighter and faster and a touring bike will be better with heavy loads.

Touring: Designed for stability under heavy load, durability, and comfort over long distances. Will have braze-ons for racks and fenders. Due to the longer wheelbase, touring bikes can tend to be a bit sluggish in traffic. They're also, in my limited experience of bike shopping, more expensive than CX or hybrids because they tend to be sold with higher spec components. if you can find a new tourer for under $1000, please tell me where!

Hybrid: Many riders prefer to have flat bars (both CX and touring bikes have drop bars like a road bike)when riding in traffic. I don't mind the drops in traffic myself, but I do like having flat bars on my winter bike.:innocent: Hybrids tend to be less expensive than CX bikes and tourers (partly because of lower-spec components). On long rides, the flat bars offer fewer hand positions and for some people this can result in sore wrists, etc. But there are certainly people who can ride 100+ km on hybrids or even MTBs with little discomfort.

The best bike for what you want to do is whatever you can find at a store you like dealing with, and fits you properly. For 100+ km rides, I would lean toward drop bars (CX over hybrid) and if you're planning a lot of them, consider looking at road bikes as well.

Touring bike:
Advantages

• You can affix enough racks to the bike to spend weeks at a time on one with nothing more then what you carry and the food you need to buy.
• They are built to carry stuff.
• They aren't delicate
• Longer with a more stable ride.
• The Timex of bicycles...take a lickin' and keep on tickin'

Disadvantages

• Longer with a more stable ride.
• A bit less zippy in handling
• Heavier...maybe.
• You have no reason to replace it for around 20 years 'cause it doesn't wear out

Cyclocross

Advantages

• Quicker handling
• Perhaps a but morefun
• Lighter...maybe

Disadvantages

• Fewer attachment points for racks
• Shorter bike means more problems with panniers if you use them
• Gearing may not be as low
• Maybe a little more delicate than a touring bike...but not much

Hybrid are usually more similar to cross bikes with upright bars. Some can be a bit more like touring bikes with slightly longer geometries but most aren't. The upright position can be both an advantage (better visibility in traffic...kind of) and a disadvantage (less aerodynamic). Although the 'hybrid' implies that they are off-road capable, they are about as capable off-road as a cross bike. I wouldn't want to take one on an epic mountain bike ride but they would work okay for smooth dirt roads. But a touring bike will do the same.

Some people like them for being less complicated. They do require less work to keep running. But working on a bicycle is hardly a difficult task.

Some people (most?) ride them for the macho factor. Yes, you are going to be restricted in how you use them. Climbing is tougher...there's that macho stuff again:rolleyes:

That's a wheel/tire size. The 700 is supposed to be an outer diameter on a wheel with the tire mounted (it's not really but that's the idea:rolleyes:). In fact, a 700C tire is mounted on a rim that is 622mm in diameter. A 29er (another misnomer:rolleyes:) is actually a 700C wheel for 'Merican mountain bikers. It's not even 29" but closer to 28". Confused yet?:D

The smaller number refers to the cross sectional diameter of the tire. The tire should be 28mm in cross section (width and height), however this may vary a little. 28mm is close to 1 1/8" in diameter.

Discs do make rack attachment more...um...interesting:rolleyes: It depends on your level of toleration for Mcguivering stuff as to whether or not they'll work for your needs.

If you live in the Northwest or anywhere where it might rain alot, disc are a good choice. If you live in the arid west...not so much. A good v-brake (or even a properly set up cantilever...yet another choice;)) will do a very good job of stopping a bike. Even in wet conditions, a rim brake can be made to work...you just need to know the limitations and adjust your riding accordingly. The current disc brake has only been around for about 10 years and we some how managed to stop bikes in all kinds of conditions without them for 120 years before that.

The current disc brakes also add expense to the bike. V-brakes and cantilevers are cheap. Disc add around $100 to the price of the bike...sometimes more. If it comes down to money, go with the less expensive option.

Here's my take on the issue, which I think covers a few things other people have missed:

Single-speed/fixie:
-Allows the use of bike frames not compatible with modern technology, which means you can get a good frame very cheaply.
-Has very few moving parts to go wrong - maintenance is cheap and easy.
-Single gear ratio means that fixies are either set up for hills (in which case you'll have a slow, relaxed ride on the flats) or for the flats (in which case you need to be Lance Armstrong to get up the hills).
-Very cheap - you can get a decent single-speed road bike for under $350, and the combination of lower rolling resistance and lower aerodynamic drag will make even a sedately-geared fixie faster than most hybrids (though a bit less comfortable.)
-I strongly recommend getting a single-speed bike with a freewheel for coasting, and both front and back brakes. In theory you only need the front.....but that extra $30 for the rear brake could save your life.

Touring:
-Generally stable, comfortable frames
-Handling traded for stability - you could probably ride most of them with your hands off the bars
-Lots of places for racks
-Generally equipped with old-school toggle shifters in the handlebar ends - less user-friendly than more modern options, but many people like them for long distance riding.
-Good tire clearance for larger, knobbly, or studded tires.
-Not unreasonably priced - a Surly long haul trucker (the most popular touring bike, AFAIK) can be had for $1,000 complete

Cyclocross:
-Extreme durability - all the cyclocross bikes I've seen are built like tanks.
-Generally less comfortable than touring bikes, but with sharper handling
-May not be equipped for racks
-Generally features advanced technology like disc brakes and road-bike style brake-shifters.
-Large wheel clearances - allows the use of almost any tire you can fit on the rim
-Very expensive - $1,300 will get you a bottom of the line cyclocross bike on clearance ( though you can cut costs a lot if you go for the DIY route.)

Hybrid:
-Upright riding position is more comfortable, but makes the bike very slow (mostly from air resistance.)
-Tire clearance varies by model - check before you buy!
-Often set up with wide rims for big, squishy tires - comfortable but slow.
-Generally feature easy-to-use twist shifters or mountain bike shifters.
-By far the cheapest of the three, though build quality often suffers on cheaper models.
-A decent hybrid starts at about $400, though it might be worth looking at the $980 Trek Soho, which features a (hopefully) maintenance-free belt drive and internally geared hub.

To be fair, there are more fenders and racks available today that are made just for disc brake equipped bikes and many newer frames are better designed to minimize the hassles. The jury-rigging isn't as much of an issue now as it was even just a couple of years ago.

You've gotten some great advice so far, so I'll just add that you can find a touring bike on BikesDirect.com (the Windsor Tourist) for $600. I've never ridden one, but there are one or two folks on here who have one who might be able to tell you about the quality of it.

My 2 cents: For me. I like using a bike that I can beat the cr*p out of. Seriously - commuting is no joy ride. It's rough on the bike. Also, it is extremely dangerous so It's good to have a bike you feel in control of.

OK, I think that was 2 cents.

Chelsea, QC. north of Ottawa. hilly? you'll need a triple if you are new to the game. all info above is pretty good. wish I'd had that when I was shopping last year... would have been most helpful. go to several shops and test ride a LOT of bikes. some will feel better than others. save some for the accessories. disc brakes make sense for the northern climate from what I hear on BF. ASK your bike shop all these questions and get into it.

Well, I'll provide a dissenting opinion ;)

How rough a commute is on your bike and how dangerous it is depends on your commute.

I stress my bike far more on my weekly group ride than I do on my commute. As far as danger goes, most of my commute is off street. My group ride is 90% roads and I'm often inches away from other cyclists riding at speeds in the low to mid 20's, - sometimes faster. The hills are steeper and the roads are worse.

You could argue that the group ride is safer from cars since we are more visible to drivers. But I feel more likely to crash on the group ride just because of the speeds and close proximity to other riders.

My commute is a joy ride in comparison.

BTW: I'm using 2 old '70s era steel 10-speeds for my commuting.

If I can ever find the time to mount a tire on my new wheel I'll use my hybrid again. I worked on it swapping drops bars into it and putting some slicks in place of the gnarly hybrid treads. It's very comfy and has a triple crank.

**********

Quick answer: No.

Long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

If you want to save some money, build from scratch. You'll end up doing just as much work with anything BikesDirect sells anyway, and you'll avoid some cheap-o parts.

I am down with the cyclocross for commuting. I bought my frame and put the parts I wanted on it. I still made it under the factory bike with a much better drive train. I have a mix of Ultegra and 105 and the factory had some really low end parts on it. I recommend running triple also. I just upgraded to Ultegra triple and now I have a spare double drive train waiting for my dream roadie frame.

I'll add a couple of questions for you that may help clarify things:

First, how much stuff will you take with you (commuting and/or on weekend jaunts) - and how do you want to carry it?

The more you carry, the more sense a touring bike makes. Some hybrids will also have similar geometry and attachment points. A CX bike can carry a decent amount of gear - particularly in the larger frame sizes, but they're not the best choice for a full-on self supported camping trip.

Next, just how committed are you to riding in bad weather?

If you choose not to ride during stormy, rainy, snowy, muddy conditions, then any type of brake will work decently... But if you're going to ride in wet, snowy or muddy conditions consider disc brakes. Discs not only stop better in wet conditions, they also handle snow and mud very well. I live in arid southern Idaho. In bad weather, sticky mud and wet snow easily pack the V-brakes on my hardtail MTB. My CX'er has mechanical discs that are impervious to these... If you're unsure right now about this, at least get a frame and fork that has disc tabs so that you have the option later.

Keep asking questions. And let us know what you decide. Best of luck in your search.

DWR

You can do lots of research, but there's no perfect first purchase of a bike. Whatever you get that suits you now, may turn out to have disavantages or to be too slow once you get used to commuting.

I would suggest you buy a used bike for $150-$200, spend $100 repairing or improving it, eg. with fenders and a rear rack, ride it for a year or two, and then upgrade to a more expensive bike if and when you know what you want. As a newbie with a hilly 10 km commute I don't think you want a single speed. Too much work on the hills. Get a bike with a triple front ring to ensure you have low gears on the hills. If you put slick (smooth) tires on a rigid (no suspension) mountain bike it will be reasonably efficient on the road. If you find a used tour or cyclocross bike all the better. I commute on a 1984 tour bike and a 1990s rigid mountain bike with slicks (added after picture taken).

Love all the breakdowns on this post, one of the most concise yet!

I do have to point out that the above quote is not true. I got my Masi Speciale CX (cx=cross) for under a $1,000. it has all the braze-ons and eyelets for racks, can handle fenders too. Very comfortable and nimble. Bianchi's Volpe is their cross bike in the same price range. Both all steel, mine runs a compact double (meaning there are two chainrings on the crank) volpe has a triple (three chainrings up front) of course some other component differences as well. And neither of these bikes are 'bottom of the line.'

And how could I forget the forum favorite Surly Cross Check also coming in around $1000 complete, or buy a frame and spec it yourself.

My 2 cents: don't get a hybrid with suspension for a commute with any kind of hills. I got a hybrid because I thought the front and seat suspension would be comfy for my middle-aged hands and butt, but if you are going to be riding on pavement the suspension just diverts your energy away from moving forward. Now I have a steel Randonee tourer--US$850 but maybe not available in Canada?--and the steel soaks up the crappy pavement jolts as well as the suspension and cushy seat on my hybrid ever did. If you are leaning toward a hybrid as a do-it-all bike, get an old rigid steel mountain bike instead and switch the wide knobby tires for thinner, smoother, higher pressure ones.

I went with a MTB setup, to be like a hybrid, because i do half city road, half dirt road, i take a lot of unmapped short cuts. :thumb:

definitely choose disc brakes, the difference is 2 worlds apart, there's simply no comparison.

tires is really up to you, if you don't do off road, then go slick, if you are like me, then Off Road or Hybrid tires are best.

No comments on the speed gear part, as everyone has a different way of looking at it, personally i like more gear choices, makes going on/off road much easier.

I guess if you are just going to ride on city roads, single speed is fine.

my daily commute is 45 km each way 1.5 hr

Hey Brushy,
When you do decide on a bike. Hop on over to ONTARIO and purchase it. :D :innocent: NO PST.. Gotta :love: it..

As long as you keep the price of the bike under $1000.

Holy. Moly.

All of your posts were super helpful! Thanks!

So I've read through all of them (and made notes) and have some follow-ups:

1. I've been to approximately 320392408029 LBSs. It really helps me to learn what to look for, but I find it's hard to make my own opinions when I don't know enough about it. You obviously all have your own opinions, but by asking in the forum, I can read them all at once and use them to learn, as opposed to being in a LBS with one guy telling me his one opinion.

2. Drop bars: I've never ridden a bike with them. When I test ride bikes with them I feel a bit awkward, which goes against the 'does the bike FEEL right' question. But it's not the bike so much as my inexperience. I don't want to go with flat bars because that's what I'm used to and regret it because I'll feel like they'll hold me back. Advice?

3. Building your own. This totally interests me. But is it too much to take on as a total noob? Also, does the finished product really come in under the price of just buying a complete?

4. What the heck is this triple talk?

5. In answer to one of your questions, I don't plan on doing any heavy duty weekend camping trips.

6. Bad weather: I figure there will be times when I'm stuck riding in bad weather for sure. Like if it looks nice so I ride in and then it turns to rain when it's time to ride home... should this = disc brakes?

7. Used bikes: One of you suggested getting a used bike and upgrading it and adding stuff. I've looked on Kijiji (Ottawa) and I'm not sure how to tell if a bike is worth upgrading or if it's just junk. Is there brands I should look for?

Ok... That's it for now. Thanks again so much to all of you, it is crazy helpful!