mosquito

Can someone please explain the difference between all of these? I'm looking ot replace my B17 (chafing). Thanks!

submicron

I've been riding Swallow Ti on my Surly Pacer century bike for over a year and B17 on my 9-2-5 commuter for nearly four years. Both are road bikes with drop bars. The Surly has about 2 inches of saddle to bar drop, and contrary to Brooks' recommendation for B17, the 9-2-5 has an even more agressive fit. B17 started to sag at some point, so I punched some holes and tied it up with a synthetic shoe lace really tight, so it does not flare at all. It is very comfortable now. Perhaps that's what you should try first before dropping serious coin on the Swallow. I don't really like my Swallow that much. In spite of the metal rivets tying the lether skirts underneath, the saddle began to sag in no time, and I don't see a way to correct it. It's only moderately comfortable. After 100-mile rides my butt feels just fine, never any chaffing or sores, but during the ride I can't quite settle in it if you know what I mean. I keep moving around, but it never feels perfect, except for high intensity intervals, when I barely have any weight on it. I experimented with a variety of angles and even seatposts with different setbacks, but I think it's just the design. I know the bike fits. These saddles look great on custom show bikes, but IMO they are much too expensive for what they offer (if you discount the "exclusivity" factor). I'll be replacing it with Selle San Marco Regal. I'll keep my B17 forever. My two cents...

-submicron

mosquito

Yeah I know the Swallow/Swift/Team are for road/racing but I don't know the diff between them. They all seem the same. I'm just wondering if any of them are not as road so as to never feel comfortable. By the way, why are road saddles so uncomfortable? WHat makes a road saddle a road saddle?

tarwheel 

Saddle comfort is mainly about finding a particular saddle that fits you. There is no one-size-fits-all. And there is no such thing as a road saddle or a mountain bike saddle, at least from my point of view. I tried close to a dozen different saddles before I found the one that fits me best. When I found that saddle, I bought 3-4 of them to put on all of my bikes, and I snap them up whenever I find them for sale at a good price on eBay.

The main differences among various Brooks saddles are the widths and the amount of leather that hangs down on the sides (whatever they call that). The B17 is one of their wider saddles (170 mm) and it hangs down a lot on the sides. The Swallow and Swift are the same width (152 mm), but the Swift hangs down more on the sides altho not as much as the B17. The Swift also has ti rails, so it's lighter. The Pro falls in the middle range, and it's 160 mm wide.

I used a B17 on two of my road bikes for a while, but now use a Fizik Vitesse on most of my bikes. It is wide for a road saddle but not as much as the B17. The Vitesse is actually more comfortable for me than the B17 and weighs less than half as much. However, it would probably be too wide for many cyclists.

cyccommute 

I have a Team Pro and B-17N's. The Team Pro is wider, has thicker leather and is a bit more difficult to break in then the B-17N. The B-17N is the same width as the Swift and Swallow (I've never ridden either of those) but was much more comfortable right out of the box than the Team Pro.

I ride the Team Pro a lot now but it is wider enough then the B-17N that I still notice the difference.

mosquito

tarwheel: I find that road saddles are generally flat where as touring saddles cuvers down on the nose. I also find road saddles are generally harder and some, like the old Turbos, are highest in the middle then curve down on the sides. My question is, why? Both make it seem extremely uncomfortable for drops as they go up on your jewels. I find my B17 much more comfortable by just tilting it down a bit.

Hmm.. Perhaps i will try the VO swallow wannabe. Would there be a reason why this saddle is not good for commuting?

ch9862

I have Team Pro, and couldn't get it to break in after 4000+ miles. It really felt as hard as the day I got it. So I recently had a slot cut out in it, and it's great. I can now see how thick a leather this saddle is made of.

Others may know more though.

elbows

As others have said, the B-17 is wide, the Team Pro is medium, and the B-17N/Swift/Swallow are narrow. They also have slightly different shapes that can make a difference in comfort, but it's a very individual thing.

Personally, I've tried a B-17, a Team Pro, and a Velo Orange knockoff of the Swallow.
The B-17 I find nice when sitting a little more upright (bars level with saddle), and it's comfortable wi/o bike shorts for shorter rides.
But it's not great for me with the bars even a little lower than the saddle. I get some pressure from the nose of the saddle, but if I tilt it any farther down I slide forward. I also get that "can't quite settle" feeling that submicron described.

The Team Pro is probably my favorite. It works well with the bars a bit below the saddle. But it is hard. It's not really great without bike shorts, and sometimes my sitbones get a bit sore on long rides.

The VO saddle felt really nice at first, but it's too narrow for me. My sitbones end up right on top of the metal frame, which gets uncomfortable pretty quickly. So that saddle is sitting in my parts bin.

mosquito

The Team pro sounded perfect until people mention how hard it is. Why is it so hard? What if I neatsfoot it to soften it up?

chipcom 

B17 is 170mm wide, has three little holes in the taint area and has skirts on the sides.

Team Pro is 160mm wide, no holes, just a bit flatter and has skirts on the sides.
It is also the hardest to break in.

Swallow, Swift and B17N are all 152mm wide. The B17N is like a narrower B17, while the Swift and Swallow are flatter, have no holes and skirts chopped off some.

I have B17s on some bikes, a team pro on my XC and a swift on my road bike. All are comfy, with or without bike shorts.

The key to a comfy saddle has more to do with position than the actual saddle itself.

chipcom 

If you want soft, go buy some cushy gel saddle. Leather saddles are not designed to be soft, they are designed like hammocks to 'give' between the support structure, as well as for the leather to somewhat conform to your tushie. The Team Pro is harder to break in because it is a bit narrower, but still has the side skirts. It also doesn't have the ventilation holes, which give the B17s just a bit more give in that area.

Try the B17N or the Swift if you want a little more give.

HardyWeinberg

That's pretty much what it seems like to me. Put your butt where the bike wants it (upright or bent over or wherever), and then put the saddle where your butt is.

Banzai

I had a similar experience, but mine was with a Swift. One of my B17s eventually found a permanent home on my Six13, and I'm trying to sell the Swift.

The epiphany I arrived at when going through this saddle dilemma is that you really have to think of a Brooks as being at least 2cm (at least) narrower than the listed width. That's because only the suspended leather is useable sitting area...one does not, in practice, sit on the metal frame. That metal frame happens to curve aroun the sides at the back where the saddle is widest.

On more modern saddles, the "sitting area" is designed out to the very edge. On a B17, you really need to think of it as about 150mm wide, with a 1cm frame outside of that at the back of the saddle.

I think that was why the Swift was never really comfortable for me.