But of course you can exert yourself more without more weight on the ride, but can you exert yourself “as much” without the extra weight? What takes more strength, full exertion without extra weight- or full exertion with extra weight? Seems pretty basic to me.

Respectfully
Jack

Dear UKE, I think that my "rationalization" is indeed a better method; this is my opinion on the matter. So yes, I think that "world-class athletes" could benefit greatly from this method. And to be fair I am not sure that this method is as obscure as you paint it out to be. However, both are subjective methods practiced on the basis personal preference. I have had great success with this technique in my life. Again, lets not pretend that I am the only one with a rationalization in this conversation. I am not claiming that my method is the only method, only that I think carrying a 10-pound lock will actually increase the power of the rider so that he or she can exert his or herself more than without the 10 pounds.

Respectfully
Jack

That's because it IS very basic. At Full Exertion you are at your peak strength regardless of how much mass you are accelerating. With extra weight you are accelerating and climbing more slowly, that is the difference. If I'm going the same speed while climbing when I have an extra 20lbs on me than without, I am exerting myself harder with the weight. Equal exertion levels I will be climbing faster with less weight. It's really not that complicated. If I want a "harder" workout I just ride harder.

If, for some strange reason my brain is inhibiting me from riding faster than some given speed that I can attain, then I would be forced to add more weight for greater exertion. Fortunately, I don't have that problem and my speed increases as my strength does.

[please note: UKE's original post, before he edited it said "I can't argue with a guy who thinks he knows the secret."]

Hey, I didn't say that I know "the secret" I merely said that I think such a technique could be very beneficial- I am sure your method would also work well for some people. After all my friend, if I want to increase my power and mass I must lift heavy weights; if I want to tone my body then I must lift the weight of my body. This is a solid body building fact- it physics. If I want more power I would need more weight. All in all I really don’t think the 10 extra pounds is going to cause harm. In my opinion I think it will enhance instead of prohibit.

Respectfully
Jack

You know sir, you are quite rude. Why would you call me a "conspiracy theorist?" Just because I don't agree with your point? Not cool man- not cool.

I don't think those tools could grind away for 10 minutes on a battery charge.

I've never used a battery powered grinder, but I've used good saws. They are ok for trim work but die if you lean on them at all.

I suppose a thief could carry three batteries.

Back To Locks

I don't think we can deny that Onguard has a seizing problem. I like the fact that they are cheaper, but I would rather not risk it- what is a guy to do if one of those locks freezes up? That means time and money. I think I am better off just buying the good lock in the first place.

Hardly an assertion; it's simple physics. Further, I never said "I think".

For someone who rides regularly, their power output is mostly as good as it's going to get. Say I can put out an average of 150 W over a certain time period... that equates to a certain speed over a given course. If I add drag through more weight, worse aerodynamics, whatever, my power output doesn't change - I'm still producing 150 W - but I go slower.

Adding weight doesn't change your exertion level (if you're giving it 100% in a training sense anyway), it just makes you go slower. You can go slower with more weight or go faster with less - you get the same workout.

If you don't believe me or any of the others here, go pose this same question in the Road forum... they'll be sure to educate you.

Let me be clear- I don't think people understood my point, with perhaps the exception of UKE, I did not say that riding with 10 pounds will make you faster with 10 pounds, but that after you remove the 10 pounds, having trained with it for so long, you will have more power. That’s my point. No one said anything about 10 pounds making you more powerful and faster while it’s on. You have to take it off and then do the Triathlon. Also, your point still remains just as much of an assertion as mine. The difference is that I am willing to admit it.

Respectfully
Jack

not "his" point.

If you don't agree with generally accepted beliefs in professional athlete, health and fitness circles, well, not sure what to say.

Everyone understood; that doesn't make you less wrong. By the way, do you know what an assertion is? You're not using the word correctly.

Physics is physics, you won't increase your power output by training with more weight. Do you see any pro cyclists training with extra weight? Do you really think you know something they don't? Seriously, ask the question in the road forum, or training and nutrition.

Clearly he does.:rolleyes:

A crackhead got into my backyard in the neighbourhood I used to live in, went after my 15ish year old rusted half to death mtb with a pair of GARDEN SHEARS he stole from someone. My dog heard and smelt him through my front door (bike was locked 2 feet max from my back door.) My dog growled so I came running and saw the piece of crap through my bedroom window, furiously sawing away at my cable lock. I was stunned for a moment and then he saw me and took off. I ran out my door and saw that he had gotten nearly through the cable lock. The piece of crap also peered into my neighbour's basement windows and her teenagers saw him and chased him away.

I called the cops but I have no idea if they found the dirtbag. I was ready to beat him senseless with my bare hands if I could have (I'm a girl!)

Anyway, he was going to steal the bike so he could commit theft crimes and have an easy get away.

Bike was kept indoors after that, I recently sold it for $30 to a lady who wanted it for commuting.

I guess cable locks = teh suck. Any crackhead with garden shears can saw through one in no time flat.

I use a cable lock on my new hybrid. I have a U lock which I rarely use, which is very stupid of me.

A thief is gonna have to work a little harder to get my bike and might even have to carry it away.

I took this pic just to demonstrate my locking strategy.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/lockup4.jpg

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/lockup6.jpg

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/lockup7.jpg

If a perp has power tools there isn't any lock that can be defeated quickly but for others, my bike looks like too much trouble and TIME.

Hey there SIXTY FIVER, this is excatly what I do when I lock my bike.

Oh look, yet another lock thread.

Sixty fiver: As I said before, I think that is a great lock method. You might consider upgrading those U locks to something newer, with a better key system though. Those use the ACE style tubular keys right? All depends on the crime rate where you're at....

+1,000,000,000

I wouldn't trust a cable lock to anything but bolted on wheels and a seat that uses bolts (not the mico-adjust/allen key seatposts). Cable locks for securing a bike = Gone In 10 Seconds. As you've seen with your own eyes, even an opportunistic crackhead can break it with complete ease.

Hey Sixty Fiver, you forgot to lock your bottle cage and pedals!

Looks great to me. However, I also would updage the U-Locks.

If was just that they seemed to be using the fact that they are a girl as an excuse for thier actions.

My bike is insured for £600 more than I bought it for (cost to replace) so I possibly wouldn't be quite as annoyed.

“Physics is physics”- and physics is what?

Haven’t you ever heard about the “new findings” in physics? They demonstrate that all the so-called “laws” are not actually “laws” at all (watch “What the Bleep do we Know?” and “What the Bleep- Down the Rabbit Hole?”). Science is always contradicting itself. I am not saying that its not useful, just that’s its too inconsistent to be considered fact. One day the Doctors tell us that salt is good and then the next day they tell us it is bad. The point is that we can make the empirical data fit either side (for the fallacy of induction upon which all science is based see Bertrand Russell’s excellent book “The Problems of Philosophy”). Now, unless you have examined every person in the universe to determine that 10 extra pounds will not increase power how can you make a universal proclamation that it will not? If you have not examined every person in the universe then you cannot make a universal pronunciation that, “you won’t increase your power output by training with more weight.” Have you examined every athlete’s method? Are you other people? Then how can you speak for them?

I respect your right to opinion, but your point is not based on absolute experience, it is not a fact, unless of course you have examined every athlete (person) in the world to find out whether or not one can increase power by training with more weight? Indeed, have you ever gone from a heavy bike to a light bike? Well, I don’t know about you, but I can go further and faster, this has been my experience and I find it the height of arrogance for you to argue against what I have actually proven in my own life. Note well, I did not say that it would be beneficial for “all people” (this would make me as dogmatic as you), different people have different methods, but I think that if a person can go 10 miles with 20 extra pounds then they can certainly go 10 miles without 20 extra pounds and I would be willing to bet that they could do it faster and easier than if they had never carried 20 pounds to begin with.

When I used to pack meat with the Natives of Alaska, I grew stronger, and I could walk farther and faster. Now, if I had never packed the meat, but just walked the miles you seem to think that my performance would be the same. I disagree. At least for me it made a difference. And if you want to say, “well of course you where faster you dropped the 20 pounds.” Yes, but that is my point! Indeed, call your “theory” a popular method, but don’t call it a universal fact. And to be civil don’t get upset- or think that somebody is stupid just because they disagree with your “opinion.” I have not attacked anybody personally throughout my entire thread. I am just trying to keep things fair.

If you disagree that is your right, but again my friend, lets not pretend that I am the only one with a “theory,” while your view somehow qualifies as an “unquestionable fact” even though you have not examined every athlete in the world.

Respectfully
Jack

I have examined every athlete in the world actually; it took awhile but it's been invaluable in qualifying me to explain high school physics to posters on BikeForums. Next up I'll examine every planet in the universe to validate the theory of gravity, then I'll probably measure every molecule of hydrogen to double-check that the periodic table has the correct atomic mass listed.

By the way, we aren't friends, bub.

Resorting to personal attacks is not a mark of virtue, nor is it a mark in intellectual civility. I don’t believe that I have ever called anyone a name on this forum. An “Ad hominem” attack is a sure sign of a failed position. It is a logical fallacy that must be utilized to discredit the person while ignoring the force of their point. If I am a… how did you put it now, “crackpot” or “troll” then what does that say about Bertrand Russell and all the respected physicists who participated in “What the Bleep?” Indeed, some people just can’t handle a real discussion. Sorry if you where offended by my opinion, but then again, if such water stirs so easily, incidentally without even being touched, I can hardly say that the problem is mine.

Respectfully
Jack

This was originally posted by “crawdaddio” http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=520597

PLEASE NOTE: he claims to be a certified locksmith and he recommends “Kryptonite locks”

Crawdaddio’s Post:

“Okay, I see one of these lock threads pop up every couple of weeks here.

I am a CRL (certified registered locksmith) in Illinois. Have been for about 14 years.

I have dealt with many customers' questions after they just lost their bike to some thief. I know exactly which methods are used by thieves, and exactly which methods will actually work best on most, if not all of the locks out there.

Here are some thoughts:

You should lock your bike in accordance with:
1) Your risk of theft (crime rate in your area, or your personal paranoia)
2) Your available budget on a locking system.
3) The value of your bicycle.
4) The length of time you will be leaving your bike locked.
*Not necessarily in that order*

Most bike thefts ARE a crime of opportunity. Committed by low level thieves who carry around bolt cutters, pry bars, and/or a small jack.
**You CAN defend your bike against this type of theft with a locking system.**

SOME (very few, at least to my knowledge, in chicago) bike thefts are committed by individuals who specialize in this kind of work, have the skill, speed, tools, and know-how to steal bikes very quickly. They usually carry a variety of tools in a van and can steal, pretty much any bike they want.
**You CANNOT prevent this type of theft with ANY locking system that I have seen**

Thieves do not pick locks, they break them.

A cordless angle grinder with the right blade can and will cut through any LOCK/CABLE/CHAIN that I have seen on the market. This can be done in under five minutes per lock/cable.

So, you can't stop someone with a grinder, you can only slow them down by using multiple locks.

The best way to keep your bike is to always bring it inside with you and maybe even lock it securely there if you are really concerned.

The best way to lock your bike for MAXIMUM security is to use this cable (or a hardened boron steel hex chain if you don't mind the weight) with this padlock (links below), looping one end of the cable through your front and back wheels, around the frame, and around whatever you are locking to. Always lock to the most secure object that you can. A proper bike rack, a parking meter, anything that is thick steel and cemented into the ground with no exposed bolts. Lock both ends of the cable with the padlock. They will barely fit into the shackle, but they will fit. Even more easily if you cut away the plastic covering in one small section of the eyelets to help with this.

http://www.mul-t-lockusa.com/product...=1938&catid=25

https://www.kryptonitelock.com/produ...=1001&pid=1124

Then use one or more kryptonite U locks (the best you can afford) to lock the frame and/or wheels in addition to the above lock. This is deterrence. Even hearty bike thieves will move on to another 'easier' target when they see this. The more locks that they have to break or cut through, even with a fast grinder, the better. Opportunistic thieves won't even look twice before moving on.

Multi lock brand locks MUST be purchased through a locksmith. The keyways are restricted to individual lockshops and, therefore, cannot be duplicated, even by another multi lock dealing locksmith. When you purchase a lock and keys, the key bitting(s) will be recorded by the locksmith onto a key authorization form. The only people that will ever be able to get keys to your lock will be the people named on this list. Period. You will have to return to that same lockshop, with a valid photo ID, to obtain replacement/extra keys (very handy if you lose your keys).
The lock cylinders are highly pick, "bump", and drill resistant.
Very secure.

Unless you are in a very low risk area, DO NOT use combination cable locks. They are too easy to open if you know how, and it is not hard to find out.

Don't lock your bike in dark, low traffic areas, or parking garages, if it can be avoided.


With all of that being said, I use the above cable locking method, but with a kryptonite U lock EVERY time I lock my bike. I will use a secondary kryptonite U lock on the frame if I will be locking it for an extended period of time.

I hate bike thieves.
You can't stop them all, but you can stop 90% of them if you just invest a little money and lock your bike properly every time.”