Bertrand Russell was a philosopher, and What the Bleep... is pseudoscience produced by what is effectively a cult. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_th...demic_reaction

It has no bearing on whether or not training with extra weight makes you faster. If you're so sure of yourself, post the same opinion in the Road forum and ask what they think. Your passive-aggressive "it's just a theory, maaaan" posting has caused me to roll my eyes much too hard, and so I must be off to ice my tender ocular cavities.

My physics is admitadly a bit rusty, but I have to disagree with you here jackklas.

You may have got more workout by carrying weight whilst you walked, but if you walked for the same amount of time, but faster and also therefore further (which you would have been able to do if you weren't carrying anything), you would have also found it alot easier when you went back to walking slower and less distance.

If your going to train on a bike that weighs 50lbs for an hour, or a bike that weighs 20lbs for a hour, and you gave it you all on both bikes, you would get a very similar level of workout (you will quite probably be working very slightly different muscles, but if your gona race on a light bike, why would you want to train "heavy bike muscles", that you won't use in the race). This is because giving it your all on the lighter bike, would, as in the previous example, cause you to go faster and therefore further.

If you were going to do a set distance on both bikes, taking the same amount of time, then yes, the heavier bike would give you a better work out. You would also not be putting in as much effort as you could be on the lighter bike.

Now I don't know about anyone else, but for my workouts I find it much more fun to go a long way whilst travelling fast, rather than not go very far, go there quite slowly, and still be just as tired.

Hopefully that made sense.

Bottle Jack's

These are the great enemies of U-Locks. Have a look at the new bottle jack defeater by Kryptonite, just another example that they are cutting edge, moving things forwards, evolving with the thieves.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_76O5tGkAC0

Aslo note that a smaller U-Lock will protect against a bottle jack because the jack cannot fit into the U.

Respectfully
Jack

From Dheorl "You would also not be putting in as much effort as you could be on the lighter bike."

Not sure how you arrived at this conclusion? Why would I not be putting in as much effort on the lighter bike? This has not been my expereince. For years I road on a heavy bike and when I switched to a lighter bike I could do twice the distance and put out twice the power given the weight of the lighter bike. So- because I was conditioned to push extra weight when I took on less weight I could move that weight further and faster. Just my experience.

Respectfully
Jack

Think of it this way, if the goal is to move 50 pounds 3 feet in the fastest amount of time that you can, well then, if you train your body to move 100 pounds in 3 feet as fast as you can, I believe that 50 pounds will be nothing. Why, because you will have more strength and thus more power, indeed power is what is needed in the case of the illustration.

Or- think of it this way: there is a man who can only move a 25 pound bike, now he trains his body to be able to move a 50 pound bike and if he can move the greater then why can't he "better" move the lesser?

Respectfully
Jack

Even though the OP is in the middle of the discussion/arguement I find the disgression of this thread into theories of exercise totally irrelevant to the listed thread title and wish it would be moved to a separate thread, properly titled, so that I could ignore it. It has NOTHING to do with any FACTS regarding bike locks.

You are more than right, and I wish that I would have simply not responded to the points. I would like to talk bike locks- not physics.

Respectfully
Jack

Bottom Line About Bike Locks

Ok, so there is no such thing as a bike lock that is 100% thief proof. However, there is such a thing as a "good bike lock," and a good bike lock will not only deter a thief it will also protect against a thief's attacks. If you have a bike and you are going to leave it outside then you are going to need a lock. The best locks on the market are the Kryptonite locks. If you want to go with weight economy and price then go with the Kryptonite Evolution series. Get yourself a small U-Lock and a chain lock. The U-Lock goes through the back tire and frame; the chain lock goes through the front tire, chain and if possible crank sprocket.

If on the other hand you need more piece of mind then go with the NYFU (Kryptonite New York Fahgettaboutit Mini Bicycle U-Lock 3.25 x 6-Inch). This lock is quite a bit heavier, but is also more secure. You will also need to get a chain to secure the front wheel. Many people will tell you that this is not necessary, that all you need is a cable, but get the chain, it makes it so that thief will have to carry two separate tools. Now, all of this will be heavy, but like others, I just think of it as a work out. </SPAN>

The bottom line is that Kryptonite makes the best lock. Do some research and you will see what I am talking about. There is no video of a Kryptonite Fahgettaboutit U-Lock being breached. Sure, it “could” happen, but a thief “could” also kick in your front door or steal your bike at gunpoint. Again the Kryptonite is the lock you want. Hope this helps.

some links:

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Yor...sg_ai_-2_5_tit

http://www.amazon.com/2009-Kryptonit...ef=pd_sbs_sg_5

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Bic...ef=pd_sbs_sg_1

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Fah...f=pd_sbs_sg_13

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Evo...f=pd_sbs_sg_18

Remember the U-Locks come in different sizes, but the smaller ones cannot be defeated by bottle jacks.

Respectfully
Jack

I got an A+ in AP physics and don't know "jack" about exercise theory.


I believe the Abus Granit is better, but it's not widely available in the United States so might not count.

Bike Lock Fact

As of 06-20-09 There is no known breach of a Kryptonite Fahgettaboutit U-Lock while propely attached to the bike. If someone has a link proving otherwise please post it. To be fair we could probably say the same thing about certain locks made by Ongaurd and Abus Granite.

Respectfully
Jack

Hey Degnaw, I am curious as to why you think the Abus Granite is better- not trying to pick a fight, I just don't know. You are right it is not a popular brand in the United States- so sell us on it!

Thanks
Jack

Ziemas, what year were those Brute locks?

2004 or 2005, I think. The key hole was on the side of the lock. These were the locks that OnGuard rushed to market after the Bic pen fiasco.

I think, then, this issue might have been at least somewhat address in OnGuard's 2009 U-locks, which require the key to be inserted into the bottom of the (round) locking-bar.

It's possible, but my experience with them was not confidence inspiring.

Jackklas, you misunderstood me. I meant if you did a 10 mile ride on a heavy bike, and a 10 mile ride on a light bike, both taking one hour, you would have to put in less effort on the light bike to get round in that time. You could however put int he same amount of effort and go faster.

I'll try and put it properly.

Force = mass*acceleration. Now assuming your going at a constant speed, the acceleration will equal the deccelration force caused by drag. The heavier bike would more force to move it forward. You could however increase the amount of drag of the light bike, by going faster, therefore increasing the amount of force required so it was the same to that of riding the heavy bike. Now to me going fast is fun.

If you also look at the equation for work done (work = force*distance) then on the lighter bike where you have to use less force for a certain speed, you would have to go further for the same amount of work, which would give you the same amount of excercise. I'd personally find this to also be more fun than riding a heavy bike a short distance (which is all you'd be able to do if you did the same amount of work).

Thats a rather simple version, but thought it may help. Hills, and how much you stop and start and all that also have an effect.



Back to locks. I'm wondering, why does everyone want sooo much bike security. Do none of you insure your bike, or is it just that you've put lots of work into building/customizing it, so it therefore, or for some other reason, has considerable sentimental value (personally, I'd be happy to be paid for new parts and to do it again)? As long as I've got a good enough lock to make my insurance company happy, I'm happy.

Nope.

The Krypto and mini (double pinned) are actually rather new and use flat keys... the Krypto looks old because I was using it when I was messengering and locking up 30-40 time as day.

They did a study in Portland that showed that of all the bikes that were stolen there, just about every one was secured with a cable or simply left unlocked.

A decent shackle is a powerful theft deterrent.

What is the approximate weight (or should I say "Mass" ;) of a Kryptonite U-lock + Mini U-lock + chain?
One of the reasons I ask is that I tour aswell and this increase in weight may be a deal breaker for such a secure system (as Sixty Fiver's looks to be). Anyone care to lug 'em onto the scales? :D

Me neither; Its just what I gathered from peoples' opinions on some of the other lock threads I've seen.

Anyone care to chime in?

I will say one thing about the Abus Granit locks, they are quite pricey, however I do like the square shape of the Granit X-Plus 54. This brings me back to another point made by UKE, I can’t remember if it was in this thread or another thread, but he mentioned that price must always play into the equation. His idea was that a good lock is also an economical lock. I think there might be something to this. However, I still could not bring myself to purchase an Onguard lock, I just don’t trust them enough yet do to the freezing issue. If I had to choose between Kryptonite at $70.00 dollars and Abus Granit at $130.00 dollars I would take Kryptonite. However, if I had to choose between Kryptonite ($70.00) and Ongaurd ($40.00) I would take Kryptonite. The reason is that Kryptonite and Abus both have great reputations while Ongaurd has the whole lock-freezing thing. And to be fair it is their fault, they made the products and didn’t correct the issue in time. If they would have gotten right on it they could have saved their reputation. Now they have put themselves in the position where they must “regain” their reputation, and this takes time. People who do the homework are going to find out about the freezing issue and it will turn them away even if they have corrected it, now they have to wait until a whole new series of reviews and arguments are made in their favor.

Respectfully
Jack

A Few Lock Combinations or Pairing Techniques for Greater Security:

The best advice is to never leave a bike outside where it can be stolen. However, some of us must commute, so we can ride cheap bikes that ride well, which is a great idea- or we can use locks. Two locks are better than one. Here are a few combos I like.

Note: all of these combos effectively have the same strategy, to secure the frame and back rim with the U-Lock through a post and then secure the front tire, frame and crank through a post.

Combo 1. A Kryptonite Fahgettaboutit Mini Bicycle U-Lock paired with a Kryptonite Fahgettaboutit chain.


http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Fahgettaboutit-Bicycle-U-Lock-6-Inch/dp/B000OZ9VLU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1245618037&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-York-Fahgettaboudit-Chain-Disc/dp/B000LPJQZ4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=automotive&qid=1245618037&sr=8-2

I would call this the most secure combo on the planet- as well as the heaviest!
Now, the reality of someone actually using this combo is probably pretty slim, but if you are in need of some “serious” piece of mind, this ought to do the trick. That is, if you don’t mind carrying around about 20 pounds. I admit, this is overkill, but who can argue that it wouldn’t be secure? Not full proof- as no lock is full-proof, but secure in the sense that it will not only deter a thief, but also prohibit most thieves from being able to take your bike. It would take some serious time and tools to crack this combo.


Combo 2. A Kryptonite Evolution Mini Series 4 U-Lock coupled with a Kryptonite New York Chain with EV Series 4 Disc Lock


http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Evolution-U-Lock-x-5-5/dp/B000AMPRG0/ref=acc_glance_sg_ai_-1_1_tit

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-York-Chain-Disc-Lock/dp/B001B16394/ref=pd_sbs_sg_33


This is actually a great method, not to mention practical. The total weight should not exceed much more than 10 pounds. Of course, it is not as secure as the first combo, but it is really a better combo for those who are not so obsessed with security. If I was locking up a 10 thousand dollar bike I wouldn’t pick this method, but for all other purposes it’s a winner. It’s cheaper lighter, and very effective. Good luck breaking this without lots of time and power tools.


Combo 3. A Kryptonite New York Standard Bicycle U-Lock with Bracket ( 4-Inch x 8-Inch) coupled with the OnGuard 5022C Mastiff Chain Bicycle Lock (85cm x 8mm)


http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Standard-Bicycle-U-Lock-Bracket/dp/B000BS0D4Y/ref=pd_sbs_auto_9

http://www.amazon.com/OnGuard-5022C-Mastiff-Chain-Bicycle/dp/B00186CEG8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1245619305&sr=1-3

The beauty of this combo is that you don’t have to carry two sets of keys. The Kryptonite U-Lock secures your frame and back tire while the Onguard combination lock secures your front tire and frame. An added bonus is that the 8inch U-Lock leaves more room to work with just be sure to fill up the space! You can fill the remainder of the space with your crank if need be. I really like this combination. Of course, a combination-lock does not provide as much security, but the main purpose in this set up is just to secure the front wheel. I am really not too worried about it. One might also mention that this is actually quite affordable. The Kryptonite lock is only 58.00 dollars from Amazon and shipping is included.


Combo 4. For those on the lighter side of things, a Kryptonite Evolution Series 4 U-Lock 3 x 5.5 coupled with the OnGuard 5022C Mastiff Chain Bicycle Lock (85cm x 8mm)

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Evolution-U-Lock-x-5-5/dp/B000AMPRG0/ref=pd_sbs_sg_4

http://www.amazon.com/OnGuard-5022C-Mastiff-Chain-Bicycle/dp/B00186CEG8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1245619305&sr=1-3

This is a much lighter and more economical combo, but don’t be fooled, it offers great security. Again, is has the benefit of only needing one set of keys.


Combo 5. A Kryptonite Fahgettaboutit Mini Bicycle U-Lock paired with the OnGuard 5022C Mastiff Chain Bicycle Lock (85cm x 8mm)

http://www.amazon.com/Kryptonite-Fahgettaboutit-Bicycle-U-Lock-6-Inch/dp/B000OZ9VLU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1245618037&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/OnGuard-5022C-Mastiff-Chain-Bicycle/dp/B00186CEG8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1245619305&sr=1-3

This is my personal favorite, but don’t forget that the Fahgettaboutit U-lock is quite heavy as well as expensive. However, this set makes a great combo- good luck penetrating the Fahgettaboutit U-lock. Again, we only have to carry one key.

You will notice that I did not pair any larger U-Locks, the reason for this is that you have to fill up all that extra space or else a bottle jack can crack the U-lock.

Now having mentioned some combos that allow you to keep your front rim attached to the bike- the proper way to lock a bike is to take off the front wheel and place it next to the back wheel, then insert a U-Lock through the frame, poll and both rims, and for this you only need the right sized U-Lock. In the end it all depends upon how much weight you want to carry, how much money you want to spend and how much security you think you need to foster piece of mind.

Respectfully
Jack

A Kryptonite Mini Evolution U-Lock Review

http://www.londonfgss.com/thread584.html

Respectfully
Jack

"Kryptonite" the name that just stays on top!

http://www.galttech.com/research/spo...bike-locks.php

Thread hijack!

Is he a shill, or does he expect superman to try to steal his bike?

I have one of these "Bike Club" o-locks and a 7ft Kryptoflex cable.

I usually lock my rear wheel + chainstay to the object/bike rack, with one end of the Kryptocable attached to it, the rest of it wrapped around my front wheel, through my chainring, noose-style.
Is this a relatively secure method of locking my Kona JTS for about an hour at a time on a uni campus? I'm afraid my O-lock can be "BIC'd" open b/c it uses a cylinder key.

I was also thinking of investing in a Krypto Evolution Mini to replace the Bike Club, and then perhaps buying the Krypto Evolution chain + disc lock to replace the cable, since I hear the cables are rubbish. Is this a good move? Again, my main concern is locking up on campus between classes (i'll be changing locations after each class, about 1hr/class)

I sort of feel like a fool for buyingn the cable now, but I guess we all learn?