Mr IGH

Tazing a kid on a bike while chasing him in a squad car, then running the kid over until he's dead...I'm sure they teach cops how to do that at the academy

Taxpayers will be paying for this one....

mtnwalker

Since we are speculating here, lets pretend that the kid was doing something bigger than just theft. Lets say that he was up to really no good that can cause loss of life to the constrution workers, no matter it may be. The cop saw him and decided to not pursue the matter and just let him go. The next day someone else died, the suspect is gone and unknown, the media announces that the cop saw something, could've prevented the matter but decided to do nothing. What will your reaction be then? Will it be, "Thats right, the cop did the right thing by not pursuing the suspect. How could he possibly known? Our cops are trained well!"

Riiiiighhttt.

lambo_vt

Uh-huh. What will your reaction be if the kid didn't commit any crime?

Yep...

squirtdad

Just because an individual is on a bike does not mean they are good person.

Just because a person is a cop does not mean they are a bad person.

None of us knows the details, so we shouldn't be a kangaroo court or make assumptions. People are making lots of comments like 'running the kid over until he's dead" implying that there was intent, without any basis of fact.

Maybe I'm lucky but the cops I know personally are not mean, sociopathic people. The majority have injuries from dealing with true sociopathic (mostly drug induced) people that on the whole you would not want to have to deal with.

CycleBiker

When I was a kid we used to love to play on constructions sites in the evenings after the workers left.
If a cop appeared we would all run like hell.

mtnwalker

[quote=lambo_vt;9801907]Uh-huh. What will your reaction be if the kid didn't commit any crime?

Thats just it. Just like the cop at that moment, even right now, we have no idea if the kid was/was not commiting any crimes. I'm not saying that the cop should have killed him, which is most likely an accident, but the cop definitely had cause to try to stop, question, and even detain him. If the cop just let him go and did not pursue, then the cop is not doing his job. What resulted afterwards was caused by the kids actions. Unexpected actions results to unexpected reactions. Death being one of them. If he would have stopped instead of fleeing, the kid might be in jail but at least he will be alive.

lambo_vt

Whether the kid committed a crime or not is immaterial, and so are the circumstances of the chase itself. What matters here is whether the cop acted appropriately in stopping a fleeing suspect. Police regularly call off pursuits when danger is imminent, and this officer may have been better served to do the same.

mtnwalker

Police have been known to call off high speed pursuits that can cause accidents and harm to innocent by-standers. This usually involves a supect in a multi ton vehicle. A suspect on a bicycle on the other hand.....can only cause danger to himself.

EDIT: The circumstances is completely relevant. If the kid did not put himself in the situation he would not have to face the concsequences.

lambo_vt

Whether the suspect committed a crime or not, death is not an appropriate consequence of fleeing from the police. Ever.

Edit: If the cop tackled him and the kid is bruised or something, you'd have a point. Being run over is not a typical consequence of evading the police.

lil brown bat

Yep. You were dumb.

lil brown bat

Who said it was appropriate? And why exactly do you keep knocking the crap out of that strawman? Need mulch for your garden, or something?

mtnwalker

Death is a possibility when people decide to flee or resist arrest. Most are by accidents and some are intentional. This case is most likely accidental.

Police cooperation is the key here.

Bottom line is if the suspect did not flee he will most likely be alive. People condoning a suspects action and blaming the police for their reaction has always been an enigma to me. Do you really believe that the kid will be dead today if he had stopped and manned up to his mistake?

CycleBiker

Yeah. I guess we were. But boy did we have fun.

lambo_vt

mtnwalker says essentially that if a suspect runs, police are immunized from the consequences, and that's the point I'm arguing from. Did I misread his comments?

I'm not condoning the suspect's actions at all, whatever they may be (or the cop's, for that matter). Again, the only issue is whether the officer acted appropriately in use of the tazer and during the chase, etc. From the article I can't tell either way.

Roody

I think you're the only one who's getting it right. Did the officer follow procedure and use good judgment in his use of force? I would only add, in this case of somebody fleeing on a bike, the Tazer is likely to be lethal, and the cop should have taken that into consideration. This is no different than shooting the guy with his handgun, and I assume this is how the prosecutor will look at it.

mtnwalker

Yes you did. Nowhere did I ever state the cops have the right to do whatever they want to a fleeing suspect. Unfotunately accidents happen.

EXACTLY! As of this moment we do not know if he hit the suspect with a tazer, did the suspect hurt himself after ditching the bike, did the cop see him as he run over him in the dark alley, was it intentional. We do not know.

lambo_vt

Accidents do happen, and people are regularly held liable for them. If the accident was the officer's fault, would he be liable?

squirtdad

why would you say this? Because the fleeing cyclist will crash? I don't understand this statement. Also, how can you say it is no different that shooting with a handgun. Big difference in terms of impact on the body (even though by no means are are all gun shots fatal)

mtnwalker

That's the problem with accidents now isn't it? IF the officer was negligent and did not follow protocol, then yes he is liable. But that would be tough to prove especially with different stories from eye witnesses.

lambo_vt

Exactly my point. If the officer's actions weren't proper, he'd ideally be prosecuted. Whether the kid committed a crime before the chase doesn't matter one whit as to the officer's culpability. The officer didn't have to act intentionally in order to be in deep doo doo.

Roody

Because the probable consequence of a tazer hit on a rider going 15 or 20+ mph is serious injury or death. The same consequences as a gunshot wound. I have fallen off a bike going 20 mph (I wasn't tazed), and more than 5 years later I'm still living with the consequences.

Kimmitt 

It's a sign of how deeply damaged American society is that anyone is defending this officer's actions. He should have chased the kid off, then gone back to check on the site.

Running away when someone shines a flashlight on you is not actually a crime.

lightningcow

Witnesses are saying the kid actually got tazed and the officer is saying that he missed. Either way...he won't be snooping around any construction sites anymore.

lil brown bat

That may be the only issue that you care about, but it's not the only issue out there. In insisting otherwise, you're essentially plugging your ears and screaming "LA LA LA LA LA I AM NOT LISTENING!!!!"

mr geeker

to be fair, i dont realy care who was in the right or who was in the wrong. what i do know is that officers have a nasty habbit of having a "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality around here. not saying they rutinely shoot people or anything, just applying an apropriate saying. as for they kid that got tazed and ran over, that sucks. though i would have posibly ran too, just because of the impresion it would have being at a contruction site at 2 am.