Thats it folks, I must sell all of my bikes as they are made out of all of the wrong stuff.

really? pray tell, what is, the right stuff?

I'd go for the steel forks over alu for fear of rattly/harsh/tinny ride but I am probably just being superstitious.

copper+tin=bronze=worse material then aluminum.

Some of the FG/SS guys ride their bikes... I am one of them. 2 of my 4 bikes are SS.

Steel is a good material.... don't get me wrong. I have owned many a good steel bike; my old De Rosa with SL tubing with full Campy Super Record comes to mind. Beautiful and great ride. I still want to add an old Ibis road bike to round out my road bikes.

My point of the post was not to say steel is crap, but more that people who spout about how CF and Al are fragile and not durrable don't know what they are talking about. As others have tried to point out, its about the quality of the build and the design of the frame that matters far more than the actual material being used.

If you see some of the stress tests that Trek puts their new Madones through and the cycles those frames can withstand its nuts. They can handle far more stress than a steel/al/ti frame can (I need to go dig up the video).

Steel is wonderful in the hands of artisans like our local Steve Rex of Rex Cycles and Kimo Tanka of Innerlight Bikes. I was not saying Steel is a worthwile material to work with,...

Lastly, the whole "you can repair steel" argument is way overblown. There are some who tour cross country where that may make sense. Who is going to spend $150 to get a tube replaced + $150 for new paint to repair a $500 frame? If you spent $1500 for a custom frame... OK. But most bikes are throw-away after they are damaged to the point where you need repair.

i was just busting your chops about riding. i can do fixed, but not single. that single speed/fixed forum is really really strange place.

asi get older, i dont need aluminiums stiffness and i have a carbon fork on my road bike.

i was making a comment that even with my poor welding skills, id probably be able to slap a gusset on a steel frame. id never pay someone to fix a $300 frame, but id give it a go myself. i agree that frames in that price range, are for all practical purposes, disposable. youre supposed to understand what im thinking, not what i actually write.

that being said, were friends with the best unknown builder (imo) in the us and dudes replaced tubes on some of bikes we send to him, but its usually at the discounted price...and theyre usually his frames that weve (theyve ) abused.

ive seen those madone stress test vids and theyre simply amazing.

my last blah blah blah in this thread. i can get a good, not great, steel road fork for about $85 and id trust it to the end of the world. if it breaks,its cheap enough to replace.

Sure that's what you say, but which would you rather sit your ass on? A material that's been around for 5000+ years, or one that's been around for 100? The choice is clear! Older materials are better!