I've told myself to never start a thread like this...

QBP is my LBS's main distributor, and Salsa and Jamis are two of their brands. I'm looking to get an everyday bike with drop bars, disc brakes, fenders, and a rack, and adding a dynohub to it.

Aurora Elite:
https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/thebik...lite_spec.html

Vaya:
https://salsacycles.com/bikes/vaya/

Both have steel frames, use drops n' discs, and have multiple mounting tabs and eyelets.

I might get studded tires before next season, but I probably should use a POS bike for the ice, slush and salt instead. I don't need to ride long distances in the winter anyway.

The Jamis likely uses a nicer Reynolds steel for its frame. While they list it as having double eyelets, I only see one set in the back in the pic. I would probably change out the fenders anyway (not a fan of the flat aluminum strips), and I've got some Topeak MTX stuff that won't work on the stock rack. I don't know about its crank, either -- if it shifts well and lasts a long time, that'll be fine, but I've got a Shimano compact sitting around that can replace it if needed. It's also got that trick stem/steerer tube that lets you adjust the bar height without using spacers or even undoing the top cap -- but you'd need to stick with Jamis stems, too.

The Vaya, apparently one of Salsa's new bikes, uses an unknown steel ("Salsa Classico Cromoly", but that should be good enough anyway) and comes with a straight fork. The brakes are one step down, the drivetrain is close enough to the Aurora's (a lower-spec RD, but the same Shimano crank that I have in a bag), and the wheels appear comparable. It's pictured with double eyelets for the rear, and the rear brake bracket is located within the rear triangle, keeping it out of the way of a fender and rack. I'll also be able to get the fenders and rack that I want without tossing perfectly good factory parts.

So, as-equipped, they've each got their good points over the other. Whaddya think?

Personally, I wouldn't even consider a pre-built vaya. The build kit makes me unhappy. But they do sell just the frameset

Then again, I can't even think about buying one until I see a picture of one that doesn't look like it's about to fall over backwards. I'm becoming less of a Salsa fan aesthetically with every new model they release.

I try to not let aesthetics get in my way, but I agree, that Vaya looks disgusting, at least in the picture.

Might as well post the Jamis's pic, too:

You mentioned studded tires....suggest you doublecheck what tire sizes will fit these frames. I think the Aurora maxes out at 700x35's, the Elite may be different.

The rear wear in the Salsa photo is smaller than the front. Whoever took the pic screwed up and shot the bike at a very unflattering angle.

The Jamis has a triple.

I can't see anyone completing a multi-day tour using a double unless they tour in Florida.

Upgrading the Salsa to a triple would cost $250+

I've got the Gossamer triple crank on my Kona Jake and after 5000 miles I'm still pretty happy with it.

The Vaya is beautiful in person, but I'm not sure what I think of the head tube angle. I'd have to ride it. The geometry is different enough between the two bikes, that riding both should give you a clear preference.

I went back and forth between the 2009 and 2010 Aurora Elite and finally got the 2009 for Christmas (from Santa). The 2010 has the rack and fenders, but the components are a step down. The disc brakes are a bonus though. I just put a rack and fenders on my 09 and am very pleased. Also, because it was the end of the season, I was able to order it from the LBS for $1350, $300 less than the 2010. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah, but I've also been thinking that I'd rather use a piece-o'-crap mountain bike for when the weather's that bad. I don't really need to ride a bike at all here when it's snowy, anyway -- I took to walking while we were snowbound for two weeks.

The Aurora (not the Elite) at my LBS with 32mm tires looks like it'll have room for at least 35's, and some Nokian and Schwalbe studded tires come in that size. If I wanted to ride floaters instead, I'd get a Pugsley with some Endormorphs.

We just built up a Vaya for a customer and I must say that is one beautiful bike in person. It has TONS of tire clearance, we fit the 2.1 vulpine off my friends Fargo and the same tire almost clears the rear as well. Lots of cool things like direct mount for the brakes on the frame and fork and a fairly tall head tube which would help fit for the majority of riders out there. I was impressed enough that if it wasn't disc only I would have replaced my Gunnar with it.

I think the Vaya would likely take bigger tires based on the aurora (non elite) I had. I don't like the stem/steerer deal on the Jamis (seems gimmicky) but the parts spec is really smarter/better. That combined with the probably lighter frame would make me go with the Jamis, if I didn't need bigger tires. If the prices are similar the triple and upgraded brakes make the Jamis more attractive. BB5s can work ok but finding the proprietary replacement pads can be a be a nightmare (they are different than all other avid brakes).

The Gossamer is a perfectly fine crank, so don't worry about that.

The Vaya has forward-facing dropouts on the fork which help keep the disc brake from pulling the wheel out of the dropouts.

You guys aren't helping at all (or does it just mean that these two bikes are really, really comparable)..

I have the '08 Aurora Elite (https://tinyurl.com/yd6ctwg), and I really like it as a commuter. I added fenders recently, but I've never used studded tires on it. A 35 mm tire probably is the widest you can get on there, but that's been fine for me. I have the stock 32 mm Vittoria Randonneurs on it and have not been tempted to change them out.

I wanted to try the Salsa Casserole out when I was buying, but I could not find one within a day's drive. So I cannot compare it directly to a Salsa. But overall I'm really happy with the Aurora Elite.

I have an 08' Salsa La Cruz (I like it very much) and I would go w/ the Jamis. The Vaya looks like a "soon-to-be forgotten branch on the tree of cycling evolution" kind of design IMHO.

The Kona Sutra is very similar to these bikes as well. I had a 2008 Sutra that was recently stolen, and I'm considering the Salsa Vaya as a replacement. The Jamis, however, isn't even a consideration because of the seatstay mounted rear disc brake. It causes a lot of trouble when fitting a proper rear fender (the stock ones look useless). I have had a Jamis Sputnik for a couple years though. They make damn fine bikes, and the Reynolds 631 tubing on my Sputnik has been great.

A more expensive option is the Civia Bryant, which should be released this spring. The Bryant has a couple different builds, one of which comes equipped with BB7 brakes and SRAM Rival components. Civia, like Salsa, is owned by QBP.

Based on looks alone I prefer the Jamis. The Salsa looks too much like a hybridized MTB, which I suppose might be exactly what it is. Also, I've heard nothing but praise for the Aurora Elite on these forums, except for the switch from road to MTB gearing for 2010. That being said the switch makes it more suitable for loaded touring, IMHO. I'm sure the Salsa is a capable tourer as well and the toughness, utility, and versatility of touring bikes makes them great commuters. I guess if looks aren't the deciding factor then a couple of test rides are in order.

This is somewhat off topic, but I just got my bike back! I'm stoked! No new Vaya for me I guess. I could always buy the frameset and switch out the components, but it's a fine bike, and I'm glad to have it back.

I have put full fenders on a number of bikes with disc brakes and never had an issue. What would be the problem as you see it?

The disc brake caliper gets in the way of the fender struts on the fenders I use. There are ways around this, but it's not an issue if the disc brake is mounted on the chainstay. When they are mounted on the seatstay they may also interfere with panniers.

Or there's the Civia Bryant, which comes built with BB7s and either Rival or an Alfine IGH w/ belt drive at near the same MSRP as the Aurora Elite. QBP is out of stock on all Bryant models, though.

https://www.civiacycles.com/civiacomplete_bryant.php

... which Ken Wind already mentioned...

The Kona dew drop is closer to the Vaya in terms of geometry.. I don't really like the spec of the Jamis or the Vaya... both seem built/spec'd for commuting not touring, which is why i suggested a look at Kona's dew drop. A lot cheaper..

Actually, one of the reasons I started thinking about the Bryant was that it can be had with Rival.

I'm also thinking of getting a fast, racy road bike frame (BMC Racemaster), so I got a bunch of road parts from a local shop's liquidation sale, including DA shifters and Ultegra derailleurs. The trick is, for the frame that I like, and the size that I'd get, I'd prefer the ergonomics of Sram and Campy shifters -- they feel better with my hands farther out than Shimano does, so I could fudge the frame size a little smaller. I got to borrow a size 56 Racemaster with Chorus for a week and liked it quite a bit.

One option I've got in mind, then, is to get the Rival-equipped Bryant, swap on the Shimano shifters and RD, and use the Rival parts for the BMC build.

That Dew Drop sure is a lot cheaper, though......

I'm excited about the Bryant. My local bike shop is getting the alfine belt drive version, and I'm looking forward to riding it.

After talking to the local bike shop owner, I couldn't resist, and I ordered the Vaya frameset! I will definitely post my impressions after I ride it. It's going to receive all the parts that are currently on my Sutra, but it's a bigger frame that should fit me better. Unfortunately, the size difference will make for a poor comparison.

Maybe it's just a bad picture but I really prefer forks with some curve to them rather than just looking like they're bent at the joint with the steerer.