Punks: The hidden danger of commuting
 

I have read a whole lot on the subject of kids/teens/adults/punks bullying people off of their bike, and it got me thinking. What is the MAX amount of "fire power" you should carry?

I think a stun gun, mace, and a chain/Ulock is more than enough, although it would be nice to have a taser also. I have read about people carrying guns and that to me, is just overkill. I don't ever see that being a smart idea. I can see a super loud horn and a super bright flashlight also working, but not for more than 2 or 3 people. I think I will get a good size can of mace, and some from or whip type weapon...

I also think getting as much speed/distance you can from the crowd is key to survival, along with not trying to start a fight. Oh, is it just me or do you guys also duck your head (like between your arms) when you go past a group of questionable people?

I know areas in Houston where the police will not get out of there patrol car unless there are Two Officers.

Do you really think you could out run 16 y/o punks on bmx bikes?

Just saying

Due to a friend of mine getting mugged and injured by a knife wielding A-hole, I now carry a collapsible baton. It is 7" when collapsed and 16" when extended. The reason I don't carry pepper spray is that it is almost always windy here and I don't care to get a face full of that stuff. ASP and Monadnock make the best, but serviceable batons can be bought for less.

http://www.batondefense.com/asp-tactical-baton.html

While I don't live in Houston, I would have no problem outrunning a BMX jerk with my racing road bike. But, That means nothing if, they are armed with a weapon.

Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.

Check your state laws. The legality of carrying these varies state to state, and if I recall, use of a baton constitutes deadly force in some states.

My breath is a pretty good deterrent.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=143311

That and a steely-eye attitude

Our

Out run or out bike? I feel sure I can out bike them, and i'm fairly confident I can out run them.

Maintain speed, maintain distance. I've never had any trouble from pedestrians.

I've been chased by punk kids on BMX bikes more than once. I have no idea why they chased me, what they were thinking if anything; I really doubt they meant me any harm, but if someone starts chasing me I take it as a challenge and dial it up a bit. I know I look silly on my little folding bike with 16" wheels, but there's no way a bunch of kids is going to come anywhere near catching me on those stunt bikes they ride.

Best deterrent, commuting or otherwise - don't look like a target.

So far the biggest threat I've faced has been dogs, even though my commute is urban/suburban. I can remember a few occasions where I rode through a given neighborhood two or three days in a row and saw the same group of "yutes" (imagine Joe Pesci talking) and decided to alter my route, lest they get bored and want to mess with me.

This may be a geographic phenomena, but in ten years of commuting I have never felt the least bit threatened by any non-motorized person.

And that includes those guys stuck in traffic who jumped out of the car and ran after me. For a few seconds.

(Colleen raise her hand here) yep, that's what I do.

In the morning being chill and all, I wear a full hood with only my eyes and mouth expose. I have so much layer of clothe on that I look like a NFL linebacker. I get call "sir" at the train station LOL. Well at least I don't look like an easy target.

Sounds a little like paranoia here?

If I felt the need to carry a weapon on my bike commute - I wouldn't do it. Or I'd move.

I used to get harassed by teens on a regular basis several years ago, but it's been quite some time since I've been bothered. Not really sure on what changed, but I can only speculate that it's probably due to my updating the bike fleet with faster bikes, which let's me travel on busier, faster thoroughfares, and not the slower stop and go backstreets where a lot of our local teens like to hang out on.

Pretty much.

I commute 3 x week through the "badlands" of North Philadelphia, as the area is called. Open drug dealing is common and shootings aren't that unusual. I have yet to encounter a threat from pedestrians or neighborhood residents. During the summer, a kid splashed me with water (oh no!) and I've also had kids chase me on bikes or foot, mostly out of curiosity, as I ride a folding bike, and bike commuters are few and far between in that area. The worst was a young teenage boy on an ATV (illegal in the city, but people still use them in warm months) who passed within inches of my handlebars going about 50mph on a city street. Cars and drivers are by FAR the most dangerous thing I encounter. I am much more nervous going around the Art Museum circle and dealing with bike lanes that merge and cross over turn lanes to the highway, than I am in the rougher parts of town. Now I just need to continue my record of never getting a flat in the bad parts of town (knock on wood).

"...just what you see, pal"

Finally!

:thumb:

I had an issue with a few locals on the MUP a little while back, fortunately they didn't get their hand on our first encounter. The second time we crossed paths I had a nice, brightly polished piece of heavy gauge aluminum tubing, about 3 1/2 feet long, 2" diameter, with a little bit of weight at one end and handlebar tape grip at the other, slipped into my mess bag for an easy draw like a samurai sword. Unfortunately (fortunately for them) I didn't get my hands on them the second time they saw me - I drew "excalibur" and they changed posture from blocking the MUP and challenging me, to runing away from the mad guy on the bike cavalry-charging and yelling like Mel Gibson in braveheart'.

They have actively avoided me (walked a safe distance away from the MUP) every time we've crossed paths since.

As I mentioned in another thread, I think the best defense is a good offense that is unlikely to be turned against you: massive lighting. Especially helmet mounted. If they can't see you, they can't hit you. And if you can see them, then the odds are pretty good.

If you're concerned about rocking the tactical lighting all the time, you could kick it up just in the more sketchy areas. But I'd have to think that, say, 1000 lumens directed wherever your head is pointed has got to be a pretty good deterrent to even approaching you, at least from the front. And anything that makes you more visible is going to make them more visible too.

I will speak up as one the minority here. I don't think carrying a small gun would be all that crazy for someone familiar and experienced with guns, as long as they did it legally. There are a lot of people out there with them in their cars as it is, these are probably some of the same people that yell at bikers.

With that being said I agree with what was said earlier, avoid being a target first, and if in a situation, be the bigger "man" and leave/ride off, get out of the situation.

Not if they're really out to get you.

The problem I have with weapons, is when do you use it? Suppose in the first quote the kids did not run off but held their position. If they have not actually attacked, are you going to attack first? If you wind up hurting or killing someone who did nothing more than stand in your way, I don't see you having much of a legal defense. On the other hand, if you wait for them to attack first, it may be too late to use the weapon.

Same thing with a gun. Are you going to pull a gun on someone just because they are standing close too you and you feel threatened? If you don't have your gun out and ready it may not do you much good (especially if you are wearing gloves).

Paul

I must live in a really safe area. I have never, ever had a problem like this, I also don't ride in a big city. Mine is mostly MUP and rural.

Precisely, you'd get hurt whether you carry a gun or not. Besides, being on a bicycle doesn't put you in a good position for effective self defense in case of unexpected attack. You'd either have to pull your weapon first at the slightest hint of trouble or it'll be too late to pull any weapon since you'd most likely be down and incapacitated by the time you know it. One BF member had the misfortune to find that out when he was taken down with haymaker blow in matter of seconds. He wouldn't have a chance to pull anything out. Running away was the only sensible thing he could do.

I'm glad I don't have such problem because I would simply stop riding or find a long detour. Arming yourself won't help. Avoiding the trouble areas is the only way.

Adam

I also cycle in Philly...and have been through North Philly many times (although not so much lately). I also went through some areas of West Philly and Kensington that could be a bit frightening. The thing I've learned is keep your head down and your mouth shut and everything is usually going to be fine with pedestrians. I've found that when you don't look for trouble, you usually won't find it. Of course being a big bald guy helps.

Honestly...if you're up against a group of people, I think moving away from them quickly is the best strategy. A weapon is going to potentially escalate things and there aren't many weapons I'd feel confident in against a group of people. I trust my common sense and legs to get me out of trouble more than any weapons.

I absolutely agree with you about the ATVs...the idiots who use those are generally breaking traffic laws, usually in bike lanes or maneuvering in areas we rely on, and they frequently are showing off for another idiot at speeds where they lack control of their vehicle. I am terrified of those things. A guy was attacked in Port Richmond by a gang of ATV thugs.

I can't speak for others, but I'm a hot head. I have a quick temper (although it also burns out fast) and I think for me, a weapon is a very bad idea. I could easily see myself over reacting to a situation where I felt threatened and ending up in front of a jury, or hurting myself by mistake.

+1

I agree a weapon is not necessarily a good idea. You need to be prepared to use it without hesitation, which you're probably not, and the person who is attacking you probably is. In which case you will most likely find it turned against you. Best bet is distraction, the light was a good idea, not looking like a target also, an air horn. Or try this, carry a few singles, someone comes you throw them at them and head in the opposite direction. They don't know it only a couple of bucks but they'll likely be distracted long enough for you to get away.

I had no problem outrunning my cocky 16yr old on his BMX bike on my beat up old commuter...much to his chagrin, since the bet was over who was gonna clean out the gutters. :D

That said, you actually need to know you gotta haul ass before it's too late to haul ass and you gotta know where you are hauling ass to better than they do.