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Old 05-17-10 | 05:05 AM
  #51  
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I agree that at times, a MUP can be difficult to navigate. However, i am lucky enough that 1/2 of my ride can be done on one and USUALLY i have little to no other MUP traffic to deal with. Our MUP here is part of a large park and there are several paths to take. I used to in the afternoon ride on one particular section just to see all the MILF's, but i tired of the foot traffic so now i take one of the least used paths so i can keep moving. The paths are paved, in great shape and can be real fast---to me that sure beats hassling with cars. I Don't care where or who are riding, to me the most important thing is we are all riding--as long as your not a wobbler.
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Old 05-17-10 | 06:07 AM
  #52  
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Unfortunately I don't have a bike path/MUP on my way to work. I'd hardly classify myself as a roadie. I ride either an old Bianchi Grizzly or a single speed coaster brake bike I use in bad weather. I live very close to a bike path/MUP but it doesn't go in the direction I need to go for work. I have no choice but to ride in heavy traffic downtown in the morning and coming home in the afternoon. Granted it only takes me 15 mins but if I were to take public transit or drive it takes me 30 mins including traffic and parking if I drove a car. Sometimes if I have to go visit friends I will use the the bike path if it is convenient but again I am not zipping along at 20-30mph. Our bike path also has signs up warning you not to ride in excess of 12 miles per hour (20kph).
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Old 05-17-10 | 12:01 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Yellowbeard
Can't I be both?
You can be all three - a wobbly, muppet, muppie.
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Old 05-17-10 | 02:25 PM
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Old 05-17-10 | 02:38 PM
  #55  
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Why do Bicycle Commuters seem to have to take the added risks of always riding on their bicycles despite there being a perfectly good and lovely to drive on road for them to drive their cars on?

I've noticed this a lot recently. There are two roads which are really fine to drive on my route in to work.

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Old 05-17-10 | 04:18 PM
  #56  
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Here's my take on why I won't take the MUP:

I was riding the MUP to visit a friend one sunny Sunday afternoon, and noticed the concrete was a little damp from sprinklers just having been deployed on the nearby grass. As I approached, I slowed way down, going possibly not even 3-4mph. I could have walked faster over it. The area slopes downward drastically kind of out of nowhere, and it appears the designers poorly chose to use concrete which was treated to be completely smooth, so it was, traction-wise, like a water slide or ice. Well, you can guess what happened: I went down - hard - out of nowhere. The sudden loss of traction was surprising, but the expletives I uttered were not. I ride slick tires because one expects to be able to ride a road bike on a paved municipal path. This happened to me on three separate occasions in different areas of the MUP where there was only slight dampness. I can't fathom why they have their sprinklers pointed directly at the pavement, and it is this way through several areas of this particular MUP. What a waste of water, especially in a desert.

I even went down once on a dry s-curve section which is known notoriously in the area as the "curve of death". How silly of me to think I could approach a paved section at more than a runner's pace, maybe 12mph.

As a result of this, I sent an email to the city bike infrastructure planner. A week later, I noticed when riding by the area where I had last fallen, that the concrete had been grated to create a better gripping surface. Great, it was still soaking wet. I still don't get why they are pointing the sprinklers at the pavement, and I'm still going nowhere near that MUP.

Add to that the whole - rollerbladers and full families with their kids and dogs playing joyfully, up the entire width of pavement, it's not difficult to see why the road is a more attractive option. I ride the roads in the area when it rains here often. I've never fallen on a wet road. Coincidentally, my falls have been zero since the cessation of riding the MUP.

Anyway, I need to end my long tale. OP: Perhaps the MUP in your area isn't designed by total morons. I don't know, but this does give a pretty good example of why a roadie would choose to not commute via MUP when one is available.

Last edited by cellery; 05-17-10 at 04:25 PM. Reason: I suck at spelling?
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Old 05-17-10 | 04:40 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by cellery
I can't fathom why they have their sprinklers pointed directly at the pavement, and it is this way through several areas of this particular MUP. What a waste of water, especially in a desert.
Here's my guess:

a) Get up early & water the bike path.
b) Pull in the sprinkler
c) Retreat to living room facing path with binoculars
d) Enjoy the show --> "THAT ought to slow those damned bikers down, Bua hahahaha!"
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Old 05-17-10 | 04:51 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by JeremyZ
Here's my guess:

a) Get up early & water the bike path.
b) Pull in the sprinkler
c) Retreat to living room facing path with binoculars
d) Enjoy the show --> "THAT ought to slow those damned bikers down, Bua hahahaha!"

Sigh... and next thing you know we'll all be slipping on strategically placed banana peels in the bike lane. Perhaps laid down by mushroom, and/or gorilla shaped motorists in go-carts?
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Old 05-17-10 | 05:13 PM
  #59  
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I have a mup that runs from my house to my office, passing through some lovely parks and crossing only a couple of roads. In the morning it is a great route for myself and dozens of other bike commuters.

In the evening, it's a goddamn circus. Plus they have been giving out speeding tickets! I ride home on the road.
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Old 05-17-10 | 05:15 PM
  #60  
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mercator, sounds a lot like the ARBT in Sacramento. Once summer comes I do everything in my power to avoid it in the evenings and weekend mornings.
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Old 05-18-10 | 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cellery
...I even went down once on a dry s-curve section which is known notoriously in the area as the "curve of death". How silly of me to think I could approach a paved section at more than a runner's pace, maybe 12mph.
fallen on a wet road. Coincidentally, my falls have been zero since the cessation of riding the MUP.

Anyway, I need to end my long tale. OP: Perhaps the MUP in your area isn't designed by total morons...
There are quite a few curves - at the bottom of steep hills, naturally - like that on some of the Calgary pathways. It wasn't until I took up track cycling that I figured out exactly what was wrong with these corners; they were not banked, or in some cases were even negatively banked. Also frustrating was the way some paths would do all sorts of s-bend curves over flat ground for no apparent reason. Clearly, the people designing these pathways couldn't conceive of people riding a bike for anything other than a meandering Sunday picnic ride once a summer.
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Old 05-19-10 | 12:56 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Toddorado
I am more of a commuter than a roadie, but I ride very aggressively. Not dangerously, mind you, but aggressively. When I find myself on the MUPs, it is a frustrating experience. No one really pays attention because they're too busy fiddling with their phone or iPod (the foot traffic). I cannot ride as fast on a MUP, and I like to go fast.

For me, riding on a MUP defies common sense because it does not suit my style of riding.
I'm with this guy..

Plus I get bored on MUPs.. I like riding in traffic, it keeps my senses sharp... also, the ones i've ridden around here are all curvy (because they're recreational?) while the roads are straight. I can get to my destination faster on the streets.
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Old 05-20-10 | 05:16 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Jonahhobbes
Why do Roadie Commuters seem to have to take the added risks of always riding on the road despite there being a perfectly good and lovely to ride on bike path/MUP next to them…

Why do Roadie Commuters have to use the road all the time? It defies logic and common sense.
I ride on one of Boston’s most notorious four-lane, winding roads, without a shoulder and bounded by a curb, called the Jamaicaway, exactly parallel to a lovely MUP. However I am riding it before 6:00 AM outbound in the reverse commuter direction, so there is scant traffic in my direction at that time. My reasons are that a part of the MUP goes though a wooded area for a couple hundred yards and it’s desolate at that time, especially when dark. Secondly, I’m going in the uphill direction, and oncoming riders can be zipping downhill, and all I need is an inattentive ninja coming my way. Finally the MUP often has a lot more sand on it that the road.

When I tell people I ride the J-way, it becomes a “bragging right” to make me sound like a real road warrior.
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Old 05-20-10 | 05:39 AM
  #64  
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I have 2 MUP's paths in my 15 mile communte. 1 is usually clear and clean, but the other goes inner-city, and the constant debris and glass makes it risky for bike use, especially skinny road tires. The communte home has a lot of more foot traffic, especially walkers with dogs on long leashes, that jump in front if bikers, and I find it too dangerious on eithr path in the evening.
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Old 05-20-10 | 06:49 AM
  #65  
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There are no MUPs on my commute route, but I doubt if I would ride one while commuting anyway unless the alternative was a dangerous highway. I occasionally ride MUPs in my neighborhood or near local parks when I'm just taking it easy, and they are fine for that. However, I actually feel less safe riding on MUPs than most roads because many of the joggers, walkers, etc. on MUPs are totally clueless. Many are wearing i-Pods and have no concept that someone might be approaching them from behind, even if you ring a bell. Many of the walkers often go in groups and block the entire trail. Kids on trails often make U-turns or sudden moves to the left or right. When I ride on a MUP, I feel that I have to be totally alert and ride much slower than usual.
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Old 05-20-10 | 07:27 AM
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Last year I was one of the guys on the road. My commute was only 10k and I could get to work quite quickly. This season I bought a newer used bike and I started riding a little earlier in the season and suffered repeat punctures on the road due to the left over crap from winter that hadn't been cleaned up yet. The next day I took the MUP, wow, talk about relaxing, no traffic, no pot holes, smooth nice pavement I loved it!! Yes it added on some distance but who cares, (13.5k on the MUP vs 10k on the road). I have not and will not be going back to the road for commuting.
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Old 05-20-10 | 09:18 AM
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There's any number of perfectly legitimate reasons to ride on the road. Road-adjacent MUPs are for all intents and purposes sidewalks. And several studies have found that sidewalks are more dangerous than roads. If you pay close attention to cyclist fatalities, you'll likely notice a pattern of behaviour, including sidewalk riding, that seem unusually common amongst those killed. I'll ride road-adjacent paths only if intersections are few and far between, such as a path between the road and the river, or along a train route.

I've also seen some completely ridiculous paths that add 30-40% to the distance by meandering. I'm not going to ride that s***.

Other routes may be longer. Personally, the usually smooth pavement, better scenery and most importantly, quiet, of a path is worth some extra distance to me, but not every day, and not if it adds substantial hills, or more than 10 minutes or so to the route.
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Old 05-20-10 | 09:56 AM
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I'll ride the Boise Greenbelt (the only real MUP we have) over the roads any day. I don't have to breathe in exhaust, be yelled at, or have things thrown at me when I'm on it.
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Old 05-20-10 | 10:08 AM
  #69  
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As many other riders I find shared pathways frustrating. I ride faster than most people and I actually feel more comfortable on the road with cars than on a shared pathway with slow cyclists, skaters, joggers, dogs, kids, strollers, etc. A lot of dangers of riding with traffic, short of a freak accident, can be avoided by defensive cycling (taking a lane, being visible, not taking risks with turning trucks,etc), using common sense, paying attention to your surroundings (situation awareness), exercising extreme care at intersections, and following the rules of the road (be predictable).

I avoid major roads though and, even if that means a longer route, I pick calmer streets.

If your number comes up you can be killed by a truck running off road and striking a bus shelter on the sidewalk while you're waiting for a bus, it happened in NYC.

Last edited by AdamDZ; 05-20-10 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 05-20-10 | 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by AdamDZ
If your number comes up you can be killed by a truck running off road and striking a bus shelter on the sidewalk while you're waiting for a bus, it happened in NYC.
No kidding. One of my mother's coworkers got killed on Monday on a smoke break, when a car jumped a curb while parking (further evidence that smoking is hazardous to your health). Today, a there's a story in the paper of a crazy driver, whose license was already suspended, causing 2 car crashes, and jumping a curb in front of a school, avoiding killing a young girl only thanks the the split second reaction of her father to pull her out of danger.

Cars can be dangerous anywhere, at least in the road you're sitting in the middle of a driver's attention zone.
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Old 05-20-10 | 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by neil
No kidding. One of my mother's coworkers got killed on Monday on a smoke break, when a car jumped a curb while parking (further evidence that smoking is hazardous to your health). Today, a there's a story in the paper of a crazy driver, whose license was already suspended, causing 2 car crashes, and jumping a curb in front of a school, avoiding killing a young girl only thanks the the split second reaction of her father to pull her out of danger.

Cars can be dangerous anywhere, at least in the road you're sitting in the middle of a driver's attention zone.
Yup, very dark humor in there, I though the same thing when I started reading your post.
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Old 05-20-10 | 10:58 AM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by mustachiod
i ride on the road and often wish there was a path to use instead. although i have ridden paths before and sometimes people are walking and using the full width of the path do not hear you as you approach, even after saying "on your left" slowing down and saying it a bit louder and then almost stopping and by this time you are screaming and they look at you like you are a jerk.
Yes, my experience too. I no longer say "on your left" as that causes the overtaken rider to immediately swerve left into my path. I have found that stealth passing is safer.

As I've posted many times here every time the MUP vs Road debate comes up: The two worst bike accidents I've ever witnessed in 10 years of riding were on the MUP, not on the road. If you think you are safer on the MUP, you're wrong. In fact, I believe that is the very reason the MUP is not safe - many MUP users think they are safer and therefore act carelessly, which makes it unsafe. Careless acts were the cause of the two horrible accidents I saw, which resulted in ambulance rides.

Of course, I'm making a general statement. I'm sure there are MUPs which are much safer than the alternative roadway, as there are roads I will not ride on, going out of my way to avoid them. I'm just saying, don't think you're any safer just because you're on a MUP. MUP users are far more careless, in my experience, than both road cyclists and cagers. Again, generally speaking.
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Old 05-20-10 | 11:01 AM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by corkscrew
I'll ride the Boise Greenbelt (the only real MUP we have) over the roads any day. I don't have to breathe in exhaust, be yelled at, or have things thrown at me when I'm on it.
And these are all good reasons to ride on the MUP. But note not one reason given was "and I'm safer there".
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Old 05-20-10 | 11:15 AM
  #74  
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My use of the bike paths is seasonal as in the winter they are kept well plowed and are very quiet as there are few cyclists, fewer meat pylons, and fewer balls of fur on string to worry about.

In the summer our cycling population explodes, the meat pylons are everywhere, and there are even more furballs to worry about... we have a serious congestion problem in some areas and one of them is the main bridge across our river.

There are ped / cycle lanes on both sides and one would think this was ideal but the meat pylons move without warning, ignore signal bells, and the biggest risk is inexperienced cyclists who don't seem to understand how to ride in these high density situations.

They pass without warning and will often do this when you are also looking to go around the aforementioned meat pylons... the only reason they overtake me is because I slow down to make sure I have passing space and have come close to taking out these other cyclists.

Oncoming cyclists don't always do this, they ride too fast and pull out to pass without any regard for oncoming cyclists or pass between meat pylons which allows little room for error.

I am safer on the road and as I like to cruise in the low 30's the path is not place for me and the vehicular traffic on the bridge is usually backed up and moving slower than this... but I am much safer in traffic than I am on the bike path.
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Old 05-20-10 | 12:46 PM
  #75  
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I've recently started commuting on a road bike (I commuted on a mountain bike previously and still do on wet days). I had to change my route to avoid gravel while on the road bike. This link is a Google Maps street view picture from my new route:

Link

This is a commuter artery with side lanes for residents to park. Cyclists are encouraged to use the side lanes (there's even a cyclist in the street view picture!). However, it only took a few days riding in that lane for me to switch to riding on the main road because:
1. In the 11-block stretch that I travel, there are 6 streets intersecting the main road (every two blocks), and most have Stop signs. On the main road, there are only 4 lights, usually green.
2. In the side lane, note the blind corners (fence, shrubs) on the right side. No carelessly blowing these stop signs, so you lose a lot of momentum along there.
3. While in the side lane at the stop sign, one must watch for cars whipping into the lane from the main road, both from behind and ahead. You need to be damn sure that no one is going to be turning in before proceeding past the stop sign.

On the main road, yes I have to be vigilant, but I still feel safer being on the road. Plus, I don't lose momentum, so I get where I'm going faster.

This road, however, leads to a MUT that I do take, and I have several kms of unimpeded travel until my next turnoff. It's very quiet in the mornings, a bit busier in the afternoons, but nothing unmanageable. So, whether I take the road or a MUT is really situationally dependent. But I wanted to point out a situation where, in my opinion, the road is a much better option than the parallel MUT.
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