kf5nd

24601, what city and state are you in ?

bkrownd

24601 looks like SW Virginia

Erick L

The most common reasons for not commuting by bike I hear:

- Scared of cars
- Weather
- Distance
- Sweat/smell

khuon

The local cycling club around here holds educational courses on how to negotiate traffic on a bike. Perhaps see if there's something like that in your area to point your friend towards.

seely

I ride some of the buisiest roads in Grand Rapids and for whatever reason I'm not phased in the slightest by traffic anymore... I used to be a wuss always riding in the gutter, but then I gradually worked my way up by riding on less busy streets and get progressively bolder. So far so good.

Sloth

Get a mirror! Seriously, you can take the lane much easier and yield it if you need to. This vastly reduces the chance of being doored.

Daily Commute

I think some people confuse perception with reality. From what I've read, a "protected shoulder" is one of the most dangerous places you can ride. It feels better, but it leads to dangerous interactions with cars at intersectionsm, driveways, etc. (Maybe there's something about the one on your route that makes it an exception.)


The key is to know the basic rules. All situtations are different, but the same basic rules (with the same basic exceptions) will get you through.

bkrownd

The "protected shoulder" is a 2-foot wide shoulder that's been separated from the traffic lane by a 5-inch high intermittent asphalt hump/ridge that looks like the stops they put at the ends of parking spaces. I wonder how many pedestrians died before they put the ridge in? Very effective at collecting rocks/glass/trash. Fortunately I've never encountered a pedestrian on this strip of hell (pedestrians are rare here), but I'd have to completely stop and stand on the ridge to let anyone squeeze by. It's interrupted only by driveways, trashbins and fire hydrants. (I love the people who pile their trashbins in the walkway and let the ass-ends of their trucks stick out across it)

The downhill (other) side of the road effectively has no shoulder, since they planted power poles in it, and edged it with an unprotected 3-foot deep concrete storm ditch. The road has very short visibility distances due to the deeply rolling downhill surface, poor lighting, and people often drive it at about 40-45mph. Cars would barely notice a bike before they ran it over on this road. At night the rolling slope causes you to be blinded by on-coming headlights at every hump. It's pretty much a major artery for the area, so bikes in the lane in either direction would really screw up traffic, as well. Fun stuff.

Come to think of it, hills make negotiating traffic with motor vehicles WAY more complicated, whatever the situation is.

jlin453

I think my main problem is I feel bad for making drivers have to switch lanes just to have to pass me. If it's a busy street and everyone's going 40-45mph, it kinda makes me stay to the side.

Chris L

That is actually the setting where you need to be most careful. I wouldn't even consider it because of cars at intersections, driveways and so on, not to mention people driving their cars there at high speed (and yes, I've seen this happen more than once). I believe having as much space as possible is the key issue, and that's why I use the roads religiously. I've had cars try to run me over, but I've found out that heavy traffic is the best place to take refuge from that. For one thing, it's amazing just how reluctant some people are to start trouble if there are a few witnesses around. For another, gridlock really emphasises just what a slow, ponderous beast the automobile really is. Even if someone tried to kill me on the Sundale Bridge, they simply wouldn't be able to catch me.

Frank B

I pick my battles very carefully....

In the past couple years of gradually increasing amounts of biking, I've been hit by a car(hit and run! Grrrrr. carried my battered and broken bike back on my shoulder ), had drivers come close enough that I could stick out my pinky finger without moving my hand and scrape their car, even was turning left one time on a good mountain bike, turned at the light, kept up with traffic, held distance to the car in front like I would in a car, and despite managing to get 35-40 mph out of a mountain bike and ride in traffic the dumb(GAH!!!) behind me decided he wanted to tailgate me to try and get me to get moving.

Dude... I was going 35-40mph on a mountain bike up an incline. Not a good idea to ride right on my tires after a quarter mile It was a 35 road for crying out loud anyway.

Past that- shouts, honks, whatnot...

It's all worth it though(as long as I don't get hit TOO hard)

Lufty

I can't imagine riding in-lane on a hwy with a 45-65mph speed limit without a bike lane or descent shoulder. That just sounds too dangerous. Granted, the 45mph country road(say along the coast here in N. Cal) is a different story...there is plenty of room for vehicles to pass a cyclist, regardless where on the road they are. As are metro streets, even if the MPH is 45...traffic lights and traffic in general give me enough time and safety to ride in lane, maneuver to left turn lanes, etc.
I think it's really personal preferance, but riding on sidewalks, or wrong side of the road is WAAAAAYYYYYY to dangerous for me to even consider.

brokenrobot

Which bridge? You've got balls, I'll grant you - but you're fairly likely to get ticketed reasonably quick if it's one of the major river crossings...

Seeker

I think the real problem is education. Not only the bikers but the drivers as well. A lot of them really do believe that roads are for cars only and bikes belong on the sidewalk (stemming no doubt from when they rode bikes as kids), and some a-holes think nothing of enforcing those beliefs by putting your life in danger if not outright trying to kill you to make their point.

I've been pretty lucky in my commutes in that I have had choices of routes to take. I've always avoided takeing the feeder roads of freeways as much as possible and used neighborhood type streets instead when they were available. Less traffic, better air quality, less stress from the a-holes (for the most part). Let's face it. Until such time as we get more respect as lawful vehicles on the street, respect from the police when we report "incidents" (i.e. they actually do something about hit and runs and harrassment instead of just scratching their butts and saying, "Well, you were riding in the street.") and drivers realize that messing with cyclists will incur sever penalties, we all take our lives in our hands anytime we take the street in spite of what the law says, how much we know about interacting in traffic, and how much we are able to keep up with the speed limit and act like "real" vehicles.

I assume everyone here has some sort of computer so there is access to map sites. My advice is take the street, be curtious but competant, and choose your route carefully to reduce your areas of conflict. Who knows you might find the ride less stressful, and discover new things. Not to mention short cuts not available to cars on heavily traveled streets.

operator

It took me an accident and witnessing another to finally drive this point out of my head.

Shannon-UT

Is it wrong to go back and forth, from vehicle to "pedestrian?" In certain situations, I'm not going to be a vehicle on my bike for safety reasons.

Example: when I need to cross a 4 lane highway, you betcha I'm going to find a cross walk! I am not merging my body into speedy traffic.

This morning, I came upon a school bus in the opposite lane. It stopped, put its stop sign out and kids boarded. I slowed down to let the kids cross the street, but I didn't stop (I supposed I should if I am a vehicle), but the driver didn't even bat an eye. It was a very rural road and no one in front or behind me. Should I have stopped there?

I do stop at stop signs/lights, use hand signals, and act like a vehicle for my commute, but it's on a very residential road and has little traffic.

ajkloss42

Wrong? I don't think this is an ethical debate. I think we should be talking about both legal vs. illegal and safe vs. unsafe. Safe vs. unsafe is tricky to discuss because it is very situation dependent, but legal vs. illegal is slightly easier; you should check your state statutes about bicycles and see what they say. For example, it turns out that in Minnesota bicycles are permitted to use sidewalks in non-business districts unless prohibited by local ordinance, and that, when on the sidewalk/crosswalk, a bicyclist must yield to all pedestrians but otherwise has all the rights of a pedestrian. I don't think pedestrians are required to stop for any sort of stop sign, so if you are on the sidewalk, away you go. I'm not sure about your example with the school bus because I didn't see it. I've been preparing a hypothetical argument about "I didn't cross the intersection against the pedestrian signal, I was entering the roadway, yielded to all traffic, and proceeded, officer..." I bet it wouldn't go well.

operator

I'm only a pedestrian when I need to be. I.e make a left turn where you can't on the road.

cerewa

If the driver doesn't think you're the slightest bit of danger to the kids, then I think you're fine. But if you want to cover yourself legally, you could walk the bike for 10 feet or so when you get near the door of the bus.

robgreen

You should check the local ordinances to confirm what they're telling you, and then speak to your local senator / city councilman / representative.

If the laws are like here (it seems like most of them are similar) they usually specify you should stay as far to the right as is *safe* and practical. That's not always the same thing as "out of the way of cars" If you're lucky enough to have good paved shoulders like where I grew up, it will usually be the same thing, but if you live somewhere like I do now, sometimes you're going to have to be in the lane to be able to safely ride (due to roadway surface, debris, etc).

emilymildew

I agree that most people don't know how to ride in traffic. Being predictable and having confidence can help.

It took me a while to realize it, but eventually I figured something out - cars have body language, in the same way that humans do. You can tell that a car is about to pull into the right lane and slam into you several seconds before they even start to move. I don't know how to explain it or what it is, besides the way the driver moves his or her head, but it's happened to me several times.

You can just tell. It's helped me because I have the time to yell "Hey" or move out of the way or make myself more visible.

I dunno. I'm just not all that afraid of traffic. I know what I'm doing is safe and right and I can't help but think that I'll be okay.

khuon

You're right. A driver will exhibit certain behaviour patterns through their vehicle when they're about to make a maneuver. I however would caution against certain actions however. I use "car language" only in a pessimistic fashion. That is to say, that like you, I will try and notice if the car is showing "danger signs" such as a slight edging over to the right or left (some people veer left shortly before turning right) while slowing before a driveway or intersection that might indicate a possible right-hook situation. However, if say a car is in the right lane of cross traffic with its right turn signal on and I'm at an intersection then I will never assume the driver will turn right (regardless of any other subtle indications) and that it's safe for me to turn into traffic until the car actually completes its turn out of cross-traffic.

Seeker

Last night I took my own advice and went to Map Quest and looked for a different route to a job site my employer was sending me to. Instead of traveling down a long busy street known for it's narrow lanes and thoughtless @$$holes, I found a route through quiet residential streets that took me to 3 other streets that had bike lanes, and the route was actually shorter, with less stress, and I had time to cool off before showing up to work.

I know a lot of people have no choice in their routes if they live and/or work in areas with limited access, but just maybe, if you look, you just might find a better way to go that's away from the traffic.