I hate the green comments
#76
Bicikli Huszár
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 2,116
Bikes: '95 Novara Randonee
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
You are correct that me riding a bike (by myself) has no measurable effect on the world, which is another reason why I ride for me, not the rest of the world. Millions of additional cyclists could have measurable effects on the price of fossil fuels. However, I think it is realistic to expect people to continue to burn fossil fuels until extracting these fuels becomes a zero sum gain (until it burns as much energy to extract than you get out of it). We are near or at peak oil now, so, unless you can convince the entire world to abandon use of fossil fuels, cyclists, will have no real effect on the rate of consumption. We can't consume fuel any faster than we are now. If hundreds of thousands of Americans abandon the car in droves, others will willingly consume whatever we save. Therefore, I do not believe that cycling to save the earth is a worthwhile endeavor. There are better reasons to cycle.
Recycleable shopping bags are a good thing, I agree. I think my point is that most "green" marketing suggests that you can save the earth without really altering your lifestyle. To have a real global impact, serious lifestyle alterations, by millions and millions of people are necessary. It is unlikely that millions upon millions of people will do this willingly. More likely, resource scarcity, will force these changes at some point in the future. If and when that happens, it will be painful. For the people who are least dependent on fossil fuels, the transition will still be painful, but less painful.
#77
Prefers Cicero
Most liberals are environmentally conscious, so I would assume you are. So even if you ride primarily for other reasons, why aren't you also happy that it is green and that people appreciate that component? Why are you disowning that aspect of what you do? Are you concerned you will be viewed as some kind of marginalized hippy tree-hugger and perhaps not taken as seriouslY?
#78
Prefers Cicero
there was a Beasty 454 powered 3/4 ton Suburban in the drive and a Toyota 4Runner on 33's that can crawl OVER a Preius (but it actually will get 24mpg on the hwy as it is geared to run that size tire). There is a 1970 Convertible LeMans (same body as Lance Armstrong's GTO) in my garage with a built 400 with a high rise intake and a Demon 750 that I hope will get 10mpg topping it off sitting on the stand next to it that will be coupled to a Munci. I will enjoy every bit of time that car turns tires into smoke with the very tight posi it has. Now a Mini van with a Blower is in the driveway.
I am all for better air quality .
I am all for better air quality .
#79
Prefers Cicero
#80
Rain, rain go away
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: East TN
Posts: 351
Bikes: 2009 Schwinn Sierra GS; 2010 Specialized Allez Elite Compact; 2009 Jamis Coda Comp
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#81
aka Timi
"I hate hippies! I mean, the way they always talk about "protectin' the earth" and then drive around in cars that get poor gas mileage and wear those stupid bracelets - I hate 'em! I wanna kick 'em in the nuts!" - E. Cartman
#82
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'm not trying to be "green". I can understand why it's annoying for bystanders to assume that bike commuting is done out of a desire to be in on that trend. And a trend is all it is - cosmetic surface changes that make you feel good but don't actually accomplish anything.
If you really want to make a difference, you have to sacrifice something. I'm not sacrificing anything - I bike commute out of necessity.
#83
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: US
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
#84
Single-serving poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
One of them yep.
Global Warming on Mars, Pluto, Triton and Jupiter
https://seoblackhat.com/2007/03/04/gl...n-and-jupiter/
Global Warming on Mars, Pluto, Triton and Jupiter
https://seoblackhat.com/2007/03/04/gl...n-and-jupiter/
BTW, where you going with that anyways?
#85
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: US
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
BTW, where you going with that anyways?
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Lets do some math - if I were to drive six miles (round trip) at 26mpg, then I would've used 0.23 gallons of gasoline.
If I were to bike the distance, approximately...20 cars would slow to 15mph and accelerate hard back to ~45. Pulling numbers out of my ..., let's say the typical car cruises at 25mpg, takes 1/4 mile to accelerate, and accelerates at 15mpg. Thus, each car uses an additional ~0.006666 gallons of gas when they accelerate past me. Multiplied by 20... makes 0.13 gallons. Man, what a waste of time.
If I were to bike the distance, approximately...20 cars would slow to 15mph and accelerate hard back to ~45. Pulling numbers out of my ..., let's say the typical car cruises at 25mpg, takes 1/4 mile to accelerate, and accelerates at 15mpg. Thus, each car uses an additional ~0.006666 gallons of gas when they accelerate past me. Multiplied by 20... makes 0.13 gallons. Man, what a waste of time.
#87
Single-serving poster
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 5,098
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
You were the first to say I was from another planet which was a stupid comment. I just went with the along with it. Who cares?
What are you talking about? Obviously I showed other planets, a moon, "a dwarf planet" is experiencing global warming showing the phenomenon is not caused only by people.
What are you talking about? Obviously I showed other planets, a moon, "a dwarf planet" is experiencing global warming showing the phenomenon is not caused only by people.
#88
Senior Member
Lets do some math - if I were to drive six miles (round trip) at 26mpg, then I would've used 0.23 gallons of gasoline.
If I were to bike the distance, approximately...20 cars would slow to 15mph and accelerate hard back to ~45. Pulling numbers out of my ..., let's say the typical car cruises at 25mpg, takes 1/4 mile to accelerate, and accelerates at 15mpg. Thus, each car uses an additional ~0.006666 gallons of gas when they accelerate past me. Multiplied by 20... makes 0.13 gallons. Man, what a waste of time.
If I were to bike the distance, approximately...20 cars would slow to 15mph and accelerate hard back to ~45. Pulling numbers out of my ..., let's say the typical car cruises at 25mpg, takes 1/4 mile to accelerate, and accelerates at 15mpg. Thus, each car uses an additional ~0.006666 gallons of gas when they accelerate past me. Multiplied by 20... makes 0.13 gallons. Man, what a waste of time.
#89
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Beach, ca
Posts: 952
Bikes: RadRunner Plus, Kona Dew Deluxe
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
You think thats bad. My university (I'm a professor) started a bike share program. Only problem is the campus is nowhere near where the students live and the campus is too small to need a bike for riding from one part to another. So basically they wasted a bunch of money and energy buying several tons worth of custom bikes, and no one rides them.....ever. They are literally sitting in front of every building chained to bike racks, rotting. Its a bike joke on campus. But the president continues to tout the bike program as one of the major "green" initiatives of the college. Even with this supposed "bike friendly" attitude, I got yelled at last week by one of the "buildings and grounds" head honchos for parking my bike in my office. A few weeks ago, I called the head of security to complain about the reckless driving of security personel. His response was that I should not ride my bike to campus because its too dangerous. I pointed out to both of them that the campus has a bike-share program and that I have been parking my bike in my office for the past six years. So I basically continue to ignore them and ride to campus and park my bike in my office anyway. The stupidity makes me ill.
#90
Senior Member
You were the first to say I was from another planet which was a stupid comment. I just went with the along with it. Who cares?
What are you talking about? Obviously I showed other planets, a moon, "a dwarf planet" is experiencing global warming showing the phenomenon is not caused only by people.
What are you talking about? Obviously I showed other planets, a moon, "a dwarf planet" is experiencing global warming showing the phenomenon is not caused only by people.
Last edited by mihlbach; 08-29-10 at 01:45 PM.
#91
afraid of whales
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Front Range, CO
Posts: 4,306
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 347 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
I assume OP hates the green label because it's the refuge of hypocrites. Fakers with Prius cars and cloth shopping bags buying over-priced products at the co-op are not green, they're fools with more money than sense.
#92
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
One of them yep.
Global Warming on Mars, Pluto, Triton and Jupiter
https://seoblackhat.com/2007/03/04/gl...n-and-jupiter/
Global Warming on Mars, Pluto, Triton and Jupiter
https://seoblackhat.com/2007/03/04/gl...n-and-jupiter/
The article on Jupiter mentions "Red Spot Junior" further research finds that astronomers say the increase in redness probably has nothing to do with increase in temperature at that spot.
From the item on Triton.
"The moon is approaching an extreme southern summer, a season that occurs every few hundred years. During this special time, the moon's southern hemisphere receives more direct sunlight. The equivalent on Earth would be having the sun directly overhead at noon north of Lake Superior during a northern summer."
From the item on Pluto. ( This one's a doozy! )
Jay Pasachoff, an astronomy professor at Williams College, said that Pluto's global warming was "likely not connected with that of the Earth. The major way they could be connected is if the warming was caused by a large increase in sunlight. But the solar constant--the amount of sunlight received each second--is carefully monitored by spacecraft, and we know the sun's output is much too steady to be changing the temperature of Pluto."
Global Climate change is not, yet, totally proven. The evidence has got so strong, however, that to say it is impossible is ridiculous. I didn't start riding for green reasons, I started for my health. I still drive occasionally, ( don't own a car ) but stepping outside the whole car ownership thing, has given me a clearer perspective on the costs, hidden and direct, to individuals and the world at large.
#93
On a Mission from God
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Thibodaux, LA
Posts: 2,010
Bikes: '10 Surly LHT, Rat-rod Klunker, '82 Peugeot PH12 Centennial
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
3 Posts
I hate it when people argue just for argument's sake. Just sayin.
#94
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 8,101
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 52 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
13 Posts
I think we can agree that people making false assumptions about your values can be annoying.
About the whole "green" thing. I started commuting back in the 80's before I'd ever heard of global warming. I did hear on a newscast about how much gas could be saved if everyone one were to find a different way to get to work 1 day a week. It was a huge number and that had something to do with why I started.
It's worth remembering that back in the 70's and into the 80's saving gas was more a of National Security thing than a green thing. The federal and state governments reduced freeway speed limits to 55, implemented some limited rationing and other stuff far more draconian than we see from the government now. And it was the Republicans in charge back in the mid 70's. We were afraid that if the supply of foreign oil were cut off it could impact our ability to fight a large scale war. Since then a strategic oil reserve has been created and maintained.
It seems I've lived my whole life under the threat of one doomsday scenario or another. Whether it's nuclear annihilation, Y2K, global warming, peak oil, or world wide economic collapse. So I am a little skeptical about some of the more dire predictions related to global warming. I do believe it's real and the impacts for some people will be severe. I think that humanity will go on and that some changes will be necessary.
Y2K is probably a good example. The dire predictions didn't pan out but it's worth noting that a lot of money was spent averting tragedy. Along with that, the economy didn't crumble and companies weathered the storm in spite of having to spend money on upgrading computers and software. Actually, the economy was booming. Likewise, retooling businesses and homes to run greener doesn't necessarily they're going to go broke.
About the whole "green" thing. I started commuting back in the 80's before I'd ever heard of global warming. I did hear on a newscast about how much gas could be saved if everyone one were to find a different way to get to work 1 day a week. It was a huge number and that had something to do with why I started.
It's worth remembering that back in the 70's and into the 80's saving gas was more a of National Security thing than a green thing. The federal and state governments reduced freeway speed limits to 55, implemented some limited rationing and other stuff far more draconian than we see from the government now. And it was the Republicans in charge back in the mid 70's. We were afraid that if the supply of foreign oil were cut off it could impact our ability to fight a large scale war. Since then a strategic oil reserve has been created and maintained.
It seems I've lived my whole life under the threat of one doomsday scenario or another. Whether it's nuclear annihilation, Y2K, global warming, peak oil, or world wide economic collapse. So I am a little skeptical about some of the more dire predictions related to global warming. I do believe it's real and the impacts for some people will be severe. I think that humanity will go on and that some changes will be necessary.
Y2K is probably a good example. The dire predictions didn't pan out but it's worth noting that a lot of money was spent averting tragedy. Along with that, the economy didn't crumble and companies weathered the storm in spite of having to spend money on upgrading computers and software. Actually, the economy was booming. Likewise, retooling businesses and homes to run greener doesn't necessarily they're going to go broke.
#95
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Westwood MA (just south of Boston)
Posts: 2,215
Bikes: 2009 Trek Soho
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
not to mention that electrics and hybrids can be some of the most dangerous cars for bikes because you can't hear them coming at low speeds.
#96
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
Lets do some math - if I were to drive six miles (round trip) at 26mpg, then I would've used 0.23 gallons of gasoline.
If I were to bike the distance, approximately...20 cars would slow to 15mph and accelerate hard back to ~45. Pulling numbers out of my ..., let's say the typical car cruises at 25mpg, takes 1/4 mile to accelerate, and accelerates at 15mpg. Thus, each car uses an additional ~0.006666 gallons of gas when they accelerate past me. Multiplied by 20... makes 0.13 gallons. Man, what a waste of time.
If I were to bike the distance, approximately...20 cars would slow to 15mph and accelerate hard back to ~45. Pulling numbers out of my ..., let's say the typical car cruises at 25mpg, takes 1/4 mile to accelerate, and accelerates at 15mpg. Thus, each car uses an additional ~0.006666 gallons of gas when they accelerate past me. Multiplied by 20... makes 0.13 gallons. Man, what a waste of time.
#97
Senior Member
OK, I didn't get that fully. I still think 0.13 gallons is an overestimate.
#98
Slogging along
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Fernando Valley, SoCal
Posts: 1,148
Bikes: Cannondale Synapse '06, Mongoose titanium road bike '00--my commuter. Yes, Mongoose once made a decent ti road bike.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
This "green" debate cannot be settled on BF for obvious reasons. So let's look at it from a different frame of reference. A certain percentage of the population (it does not matter what that percentage is at this point) believes that being "green" is important with the other percentage believing that it is not important or a fad. Of course this equation is based on a common definition of "green". Pop quiz: What is the definition of "green" as used on this thread?
Let's say 60% of the population believes that "green" is important and 40% do not. These are not researched percentages but only used for the purpose of illustration, although legislatively speaking, the percentages are significant (filibuster). I am going to venture to say that cyclists fit within the same percentages as the general population.
So once again I will say that cycling to me is fun, great exercise and unintended, coming in third as icing on the cake, is the "green" thing, however is it defined.
Now excuse me as I need to install lights on my bike for tomorrow morning's commute.
Let's say 60% of the population believes that "green" is important and 40% do not. These are not researched percentages but only used for the purpose of illustration, although legislatively speaking, the percentages are significant (filibuster). I am going to venture to say that cyclists fit within the same percentages as the general population.
So once again I will say that cycling to me is fun, great exercise and unintended, coming in third as icing on the cake, is the "green" thing, however is it defined.
Now excuse me as I need to install lights on my bike for tomorrow morning's commute.
Last edited by rubic; 08-29-10 at 05:41 PM. Reason: typo
#99
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: US
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
For crying out loud! Did bother doing anything but read that article and deciding it suited your viewpoint and thus, must be right?
The article on Jupiter mentions "Red Spot Junior" further research finds that astronomers say the increase in redness probably has nothing to do with increase in temperature at that spot.
From the item on Triton.
"The moon is approaching an extreme southern summer, a season that occurs every few hundred years. During this special time, the moon's southern hemisphere receives more direct sunlight. The equivalent on Earth would be having the sun directly overhead at noon north of Lake Superior during a northern summer."
From the item on Pluto. ( This one's a doozy! )
Jay Pasachoff, an astronomy professor at Williams College, said that Pluto's global warming was "likely not connected with that of the Earth. The major way they could be connected is if the warming was caused by a large increase in sunlight. But the solar constant--the amount of sunlight received each second--is carefully monitored by spacecraft, and we know the sun's output is much too steady to be changing the temperature of Pluto."
Global Climate change is not, yet, totally proven. The evidence has got so strong, however, that to say it is impossible is ridiculous. I didn't start riding for green reasons, I started for my health. I still drive occasionally, ( don't own a car ) but stepping outside the whole car ownership thing, has given me a clearer perspective on the costs, hidden and direct, to individuals and the world at large.
The article on Jupiter mentions "Red Spot Junior" further research finds that astronomers say the increase in redness probably has nothing to do with increase in temperature at that spot.
From the item on Triton.
"The moon is approaching an extreme southern summer, a season that occurs every few hundred years. During this special time, the moon's southern hemisphere receives more direct sunlight. The equivalent on Earth would be having the sun directly overhead at noon north of Lake Superior during a northern summer."
From the item on Pluto. ( This one's a doozy! )
Jay Pasachoff, an astronomy professor at Williams College, said that Pluto's global warming was "likely not connected with that of the Earth. The major way they could be connected is if the warming was caused by a large increase in sunlight. But the solar constant--the amount of sunlight received each second--is carefully monitored by spacecraft, and we know the sun's output is much too steady to be changing the temperature of Pluto."
Global Climate change is not, yet, totally proven. The evidence has got so strong, however, that to say it is impossible is ridiculous. I didn't start riding for green reasons, I started for my health. I still drive occasionally, ( don't own a car ) but stepping outside the whole car ownership thing, has given me a clearer perspective on the costs, hidden and direct, to individuals and the world at large.