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-   -   Ticketed for Running a Red Light (https://www.bikeforums.net/commuting/680148-ticketed-running-red-light.html)

AdamDZ 09-14-10 06:08 PM


Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest (Post 11464943)
Right, but that reason isn't to prevent a cyclist doing 13 mph on a 26 lbs bike from barreling into a school bus and killing a dozen children. Red lights exist to prevent 2,500 lbs cars moving at 50 mph from doing that...

Wrong angle:

[...] to prevent a 200lbs cyclist doing 13 mph on a 26 lbs bike from barreling into a 40lbs kid or baby stroller...

electrik 09-14-10 06:24 PM


Originally Posted by Brian Sharpe (Post 11464941)
You weren't really expecting any sympathy were you? One of the problems with society today is that people fail to take responsibility for their own actions and have been molly coddled into thinking actions have no consequences. Little Johnny doesn't do his homework - does he fail, hell no. Some genius gets drunk on Friday night and kills someone while driving home - his fault, no it's the bar's responsibility.

Suck it up, pay the fine and move on.

Haha, for a cynic you don't make a convincing case to plead guilty.

GriddleCakes 09-14-10 06:55 PM


Originally Posted by wiredfoxterror (Post 11464936)
Go to court - you don't need a lawyer. It will either get abjudicated and dismissed as it is a first offense, or it will be reduced to a lesser ticket (non-moving violation - say missing a taillight), or the fine will be greatly reduced. Sometimes the DA talks to everybody before they see the judge and just does it himself. Courts are overcrowded. This is all from my own personal experience in New York and in Florida. Remember - these tickets you get on your bike go against your drivers license and can raise your insurance premiums.

You are recommending that the OP, who has already admitted fault, avoid personal responsibility for his/her actions. The OP's premiums should go up, as the OP has been engaging in risky behavior. If the OP learns from this experience and corrects his/her bad traffic habits, his/her premiums will go back down over time in reflection of this. By sidestepping the personal feedback part of the system (paying the ticket, paying an elevated insurance rate for a small period of time), the OP is less likely learn to stop riding recklessly and/or antagonistically, and weakens the system as a whole. As we all (all motorists, anyway) pay into the same system, it is within all of our interests that the OP accept an increased rate until the OP can prove that s/he can negotiate traffic responsibly.

In my personal experience, an increase in insurance rates after a traffic violation is good thing for the driver. I used to be a terrible motorist, always speeding and driving aggressively. I was young and selfish, and didn't give much thought of my duty to other users of the public roadway, or of the consequences of my actions. In my first four years of driving, I got tickets from time to time, but didn't give it much thought until my last speeding ticket. Suddenly I was with 2 points of losing my driver's license, and my insurance rate went from $190/month up to $240/month. It was only the astronomical increase in my insurance rate after my last speeding ticket that finally got me to slow down and drive nicely for a while. Then, as I grew older, I began to view operating a vehicle in the light of public duty and personal responsibility. It's been 11 years since my last ticket, and I don't think that I would be the driver I am today if I had been able to weasel out my tickets.

Adroitly 09-14-10 07:05 PM


Originally Posted by GriddleCakes (Post 11465335)
You are recommending that the OP, who has already admitted fault, avoid personal responsibility for his/her actions. The OP's premiums should go up, as the OP has been engaging in risky behavior. If the OP learns from this experience and corrects his/her bad traffic habits, his/her premiums will go back down over time in reflection of this. By sidestepping the personal feedback part of the system (paying the ticket, paying an elevated insurance rate for a small period of time), the OP is less likely learn to stop riding recklessly and/or antagonistically, and weakens the system as a whole. As we all (all motorists, anyway) pay into the same system, it is within all of our interests that the OP accept an increased rate until the OP can prove that s/he can negotiate traffic responsibly.

In my personal experience, an increase in insurance rates after a traffic violation is good thing for the driver. I used to be a terrible motorist, always speeding and driving aggressively. I was young and selfish, and didn't give much thought of my duty to other users of the public roadway, or of the consequences of my actions. In my first four years of driving, I got tickets from time to time, but didn't give it much thought until my last speeding ticket. Suddenly I was with 2 points of losing my driver's license, and my insurance rate went from $190/month up to $240/month. It was only the astronomical increase in my insurance rate after my last speeding ticket that finally got me to slow down and drive nicely for a while. Then, as I grew older, I began to view operating a vehicle in the light of public duty and personal responsibility. It's been 11 years since my last ticket, and I don't think that I would be the driver I am today if I had been able to weasel out my tickets.

Should I mention that I got the violation on a bike and not a car? I think the mentality while biking and driving are on two totally different ends of the spectrum. If I got this violation while in a car I would agree with everything you said.

electrik 09-14-10 07:08 PM

You can always ask the officer which make of car you were driving if it wasn't noted you were on a bicycle.

TiberiusBTkirk 09-14-10 07:10 PM

sorry, you're not going to get much if any sympathy from this crowd.
where in Brooklyn was this? I was riding in Manhattan this past Saturday, you know 9/11 and yeah I was going through red lights with a cop car right next to me, sure I stopped, make sure the area was clear and rode through. it was pretty hectic downtown, the cops and the traffic cops just want to keep the people and the traffic moving.
and, I rode salmon, too. only once did a cop look and it was a plainclothes cop in a non marked car when I was about to ride off and he was coming through, he gave me a look.
so what, I'm going to jinx myself now, won't be the first, won't be the last. there's other things to worry about.
like watching out for opening car doors, you know the one that killed a young cyclist on Atlantic Ave.

ianbrettcooper 09-14-10 07:22 PM

Anyone who rides salmon has a death wish.

Adroitly 09-14-10 07:24 PM

This was near downtown brooklyn on the dekalb bike lane.

electrik 09-14-10 07:25 PM


Originally Posted by ianbrettcooper (Post 11465501)
Anyone who rides salmon has a death wish.

Particularly if they ride against me, Corredor de la muerte:


Seattle Forrest 09-14-10 07:25 PM


Originally Posted by myrridin (Post 11464999)
No its to prevent a 26pound bike from veering in front of that school bus and causing it to crash killing a dozen children....

Sounds like a pretty myopic law... :rolleyes:

Now raise your hand if you dart forward the instant the light turns green, without waiting for that car 1/4 of the way though the intersection to clear it first? Think your bus driver is raising her hand?

Seattle Forrest 09-14-10 07:35 PM


Originally Posted by electrik (Post 11465416)
You can always ask the officer which make of car you were driving if it wasn't noted you were on a bicycle.

If a cop tried to give me a ticket while I was riding my kayak, I'd make him walk the plank.

myrridin 09-14-10 07:46 PM


Originally Posted by Adroitly (Post 11465391)
Should I mention that I got the violation on a bike and not a car? I think the mentality while biking and driving are on two totally different ends of the spectrum. If I got this violation while in a car I would agree with everything you said.

And that is an excellent example of your problem. They are both vehicles and need to be operated as such. You broke the law, got caught, and will suffer the consequences...

GriddleCakes 09-14-10 08:12 PM


Originally Posted by Adroitly (Post 11465391)
Should I mention that I got the violation on a bike and not a car? I think the mentality while biking and driving are on two totally different ends of the spectrum. If I got this violation while in a car I would agree with everything you said.

Traffic is traffic. Learn to play nice or suffer the consequences.

neil 09-15-10 11:18 AM


Originally Posted by Adroitly (Post 11465391)
Should I mention that I got the violation on a bike and not a car? I think the mentality while biking and driving are on two totally different ends of the spectrum. If I got this violation while in a car I would agree with everything you said.

And that's what makes you an idiot. If you expect to be able to use the same roads, you have to accept that the consequences of breaking the rules of said roads are the same regardless of how much horsepower your vehicle has.

Trick fall 09-15-10 12:10 PM

Go to court and ask for some mercy. There's a good chance they will call the ticket a parking violation or something so that it doesn't affect your driver's permit and don't run red lights in the future. I've had more close calls as a pedestrian in the city with cyclists blowing through lights then I've had with cars.

Standalone 09-15-10 12:18 PM


Originally Posted by Doohickie (Post 11462722)
Yeah.... the camera tickets are legally the equivalent of a parking ticket; they don't go against the driver, the go against the registered owner, plus no points on the license.

Yeah, I know-- the tickets always come to me.... :/

jeffpoulin 09-15-10 12:35 PM


Originally Posted by neil (Post 11468948)
And that's what makes you an idiot. If you expect to be able to use the same roads, you have to accept that the consequences of breaking the rules of said roads are the same regardless of how much horsepower your vehicle has.

I'll go against the flow here and say that bikes and cars are different. Bikes aren't allowed on the highways, bikes aren't allowed to ride in the center of the lane if there's space on the shoulder, and bicyclists don't need driver's licenses. Personally, I don't think it's fair that an infraction while cycling counts against one's driving record, but the law is what it is. I try to stay out of trouble in any case, but I don't agree that cycling and driving are equal.

ianbrettcooper 09-15-10 12:47 PM


Originally Posted by jeffpoulin (Post 11469589)
Personally, I don't think it's fair that an infraction while cycling counts against one's driving record, but the law is what it is..

Are we sure that an infraction while cycling counts against one's driving record? What if the cyclist doesn't drive? It would be hard to put points on the license of someone who didn't own one. So that would set up an inherently unfair bias in the law towards non-drivers. Doesn't the Constitution have something to say about laws applying equally to all?

Seattle Forrest 09-15-10 03:18 PM


Originally Posted by myrridin (Post 11465652)
They are both vehicles and need to be operated as such.

Only by licensed operators who check the workings of the brake lights and turn signals before each ride, and maintain liability insurance? :rolleyes:


Originally Posted by neil (Post 11468948)
And that's what makes you an idiot. If you expect to be able to use the same roads

When did the OP say he expects to be able to ride his bicycle on I-95? :twitchy:

KD5NRH 09-15-10 03:40 PM

If you didn't see the cop, you weren't watching well enough to run the light safely.

mustachiod 09-15-10 03:56 PM


Originally Posted by electrik (Post 11465416)
You can always ask the officer which make of car you were driving if it wasn't noted you were on a bicycle.

i once got a speeding ticket for my boat trailer. handed the officer my trailer registration instead of the car's and he didn't notice.

pacificaslim 09-15-10 04:13 PM

Bike tickets go on the driving record in New York? That's crazy. Here in California they don't have anything to do with driving. (other than sometimes the fine amount is the same).

neil 09-15-10 05:21 PM


Originally Posted by jeffpoulin (Post 11469589)
I'll go against the flow here and say that bikes and cars are different. Bikes aren't allowed on the highways, bikes aren't allowed to ride in the center of the lane if there's space on the shoulder, and bicyclists don't need driver's licenses. Personally, I don't think it's fair that an infraction while cycling counts against one's driving record, but the law is what it is. I try to stay out of trouble in any case, but I don't agree that cycling and driving are equal.

I didn't say that cars and bikes are the same, I said the consequences of breaking the rules are the same. Some rules are different for bikes, but not a lot, and there are good reasons why the same rules generally apply, and also (usually) good reasons for the few that are different. And, quite rightly, there are consequences to breaking the rules whether they are the generally applicable road rules, or those specific to bikes.

And many of your examples are jurisdiction specific. I can ride on the highway and in the center of the lane. Riding in the centre of the lane on the highway is, however, a bad idea. Happily, bikes are allowed to ride on the shoulder, which works very well for me.


Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest (Post 11470635)
When did the OP say he expects to be able to ride his bicycle on I-95? :twitchy:

He didn't. However, he clearly expects to be able to ride on a surface road with traffic lights, but doesn't feel the rules of that road - namely stopping at the traffic lights - apply to him.

Whether the OP or not, I'm sure there's some BF poster out there who has asserted a right to ride on the I-95. (And while I support following the rules as they currently exist, I would definitely support a movement to change such a bad rule like banning bikes from highways.)

cab chaser 09-15-10 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by KD5NRH (Post 11470746)
If you didn't see the cop, you weren't watching well enough to run the light safely.

+5 !!!

Adroitly 09-15-10 06:22 PM


Originally Posted by KD5NRH (Post 11470746)
If you didn't see the cop, you weren't watching well enough to run the light safely.

I did see the cop, but I've ran red lights with cops behind me before and nothing happened.


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