|
Originally Posted by NYCJohn170
(Post 11480924)
I commute in Manhattan and may be somewhat more sympathetic than others here.
Fact is, to stay alive, you can't be looking at lights, you have to look at cars and people. So I run a lot of lights whather I want to or not simply because in looking around for them, I'm taking my eyes off where they need to be. Still, I agree with the thoughts we want to be good citizens and obey the laws. Cyclists have an anarchistic reputation and it contributes to the number of arrests by cops that want to housebreak us. Hard to say how to play this. I've been popped twice, once at a "Critical Mass" demonstration and once for lifting my bike up to throw it though a Taxi windshield (he'd knocked me down in a game they sometimes play). Both times I went to court. The "Aggression" charge or whatever, I got 6 months Probation. The Advocate and the Judge just arranged it. Stay cool for 6 months and it's expunged. Get popped again and you get tried for it. The other one simply got dismissed. Officer said "I can't find my notes". You ride a bike in NYC and it's a different world. Kind of like combat in the Army. Talk about it and people flame your sorry ass. It's a parallel universe and the civilized rules of normal society will get you killed. Outsiders simply don't understand it so you'll learn to keep your mouth shut about it. After watching joeybike's crazy videos and reading his take on urban biking, I am convinced this is way to ride in such conditions. He has come to the conclusion that if you rely on anyone else to keep you from being smushed, you will eventually be smushed. Assume you are the invisible cyclist, because in reality, it's not far from the truth. And being invisible, you are reliant on getting yourself out of the way. So long as you have some sort of forward speed, you have the ability to do this. When you are stopped at a light, one foot on the pavement, you're a sitting duck, make that invisible sitting duck. |
Originally Posted by trekker pete
(Post 11495037)
He has come to the conclusion that if you rely on anyone else to keep you from being smushed, you will eventually be smushed. Assume you are the invisible cyclist, because in reality, it's not far from the truth. And being invisible, you are reliant on getting yourself out of the way. So long as you have some sort of forward speed, you have the ability to do this. When you are stopped at a light, one foot on the pavement, you're a sitting duck, make that invisible sitting duck.
Lights don't kill cyclists, cars do. It is important to know what is happening with the lights, but it is WAY more important to know what the cars are doing. That said: paying attention to the traffic does not excuse you from paying attention to lights and signage, you need to be aware of EVERYTHING, cars, pedestrians, cyclists, suicidal-delivery-cyclists, rollerbladers, skateboarders, dog-walkers, motorcyclists, potholes, signage, lights ... all of those things can take your life from you if you don't maintain acute awareness at all times. |
Originally Posted by trekker pete
(Post 11494524)
what pisses me off is the cops trying to use "safety" as a justification for what is, in all honesty revenueing.
.... This same thing happens in my sleepy little town. The local cops sit in wait near very quiet stop signs with good sight lines. They know these stop signs will be rolled through by motorists frequently, so it is easy pickings. They can pay their salary for the day in a half hour. I haven't been the victim of one of these stings on my bike...yet. They don't really care about the safety of the specific sign you're violating. They want you to be in the habit of always coming to a complete stop at stop signs. If you get sloppy at the "safe" signs, some day you'll make a mistake about which sign is "safe," or you'll miss some poorly-lit cyclist on the cross-street, or a pedestrian, etc. Rolling through a right-on-red is particularly dangerous behavior, since most drivers look left for conflicting traffic, and it's easy to miss crosswalk or bicycle conflicts on the driver's right. Stop, look both ways, then proceed. |
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
(Post 11475349)
But those people never put their money where their mouth is, and carry liability insurance for their bikes. Even though the "same roads same law" law requires this of cars, and even though people on bikes have (very rarely) killed and injured pedestrians in the past.
Unlike motoring, bicycling carries such negligible risk that it is included in the basic personal liability coverage of renter's insurance or homeowner's insurance. A million dollars of liability insurance for a whole family on bikes costs less than a month of minimal auto liability coverage for one car with one driver. Here in Washington, the Legislature requires a paltry $25,000 per person bodily injury liability, $10,000 per accident property damage liability -- limits low enough that it's easy to exceed them in a fender-bender. Meanwhile, personal liability coverage on even minimal renter's insurance usually starts at $100,000 or more. Many homeowners carry personal liability limits of $500,000, a million, or more. And that coverage generally extends to all named insureds in the household, not just one operator. In fact, liability coverage for cyclists is so easy to get, and so inexpensive, that it's hard to find a policy that only covers bicycling liability -- there's no need for such a policy. [Disclaimer: insurance policies vary by company and state. If you don't see my name on your declarations page, I'm not your insurance agent and I've never read your policy.] |
Originally Posted by dscheidt
(Post 11494799)
if they're properly set up, they should trip from a bike rim. Not a bike. Not even a whole wheel. Just the hoop. Complain to the people responsible for the light.
|
Originally Posted by NYCJohn170
(Post 11480924)
Hard to say how to play this. I've been popped twice, once at a "Critical Mass" demonstration and once for lifting my bike up to throw it though a Taxi windshield (he'd knocked me down in a game they sometimes play). Both times I went to court. The "Aggression" charge or whatever, I got 6 months Probation. The Advocate and the Judge just arranged it. Stay cool for 6 months and it's expunged. Get popped again and you get tried for it. The other one simply got dismissed. Officer said "I can't find my notes".
Never ridden in New York, just cities in UK, France, Germany and Australia, so what do I know? |
FWIW, aggressive driving in Manhattan is a rule and not an exception. If you aren't aggressive then you'll be eaten alive (or run over).
|
Originally Posted by ChicagoNative
(Post 11505513)
LOL the entire City of Chicago is set up incorrectly then.
|
I've got one version of my route that takes me to a light. I'm on a residential street and I have to turn left across a busy street. There are no sidewalks on my side and not pedestrian button or crosswalk to the far side of the busy street (basically they don't want you walking across). I can't get the sensors to trip and give me the light. There aren't any cars on my street for 3-5 min. A re-route at that point is a bit over a mile.
I wonder if the ticket for jaywalking is less than running the red on the bike? |
Originally Posted by Inner Prop
(Post 11507087)
I've got one version of my route that takes me to a light. I'm on a residential street and I have to turn left across a busy street. There are no sidewalks on my side and not pedestrian button or crosswalk to the far side of the busy street (basically they don't want you walking across). I can't get the sensors to trip and give me the light...
|
Originally Posted by AdamDZ
(Post 11481014)
My BS meter just went off the scale. I commute from Queens over WillyB, then 1st Ave up to 34th Street, often run errands around Midtown, and I can stop at lights just fine. It's not that hard. No excuses.
Adam "Kind of like combat in the Army. Talk about it and people flame your sorry ass. |
Originally Posted by ChicagoNative
(Post 11505513)
LOL the entire City of Chicago is set up incorrectly then. No, if the sensors were that sensitive, motorcycles would trip them more regularly, plus bicycles would trip the red-light cameras and get the flashy lights behind them when I see them sail through without even slowing down. But heck, with no license plates or identifying marks on bicycles to track them to an owner, what do bikes even care of a picture is taken from a red light camera?
But it's quite true the inductive signal loops can be adjusted to reliably detect bicycles. Had a long back-and-forth with King County, WA transportation engineers on that -- they started out saying it was impractical, and ended up changing county policy to make it standard procedure to adjust signals to detect bicycles, and to mark the "sweet spot" of the inductive loops. Not too long after that, Washington State actually passed a law mandating bicycle detection at demand-actuated signals state-wide. (Starting with new construction and regular maintenance, so don't expect all the signals to work properly any time soon....) |
Originally Posted by Pug
(Post 11506169)
FWIW, aggressive driving in Manhattan is a rule and not an exception. If you aren't aggressive then you'll be eaten alive (or run over).
Maybe Manhattan is different to the rest of the world. Somehow, I doubt it. |
Originally Posted by myrridin
(Post 11464999)
No its to prevent a 26 pound bike from veering in front of that school bus and causing it to crash killing a dozen children....
|
Originally Posted by hairytoes
(Post 11505971)
It's my experience that drivers treat you like you treat them - ride aggressively, and you get aggression back. There is a big difference between being aggressive and being assertive. Heck, I've had taxi drivers slow down and drive in front of me so I could draft them.
Never ridden in New York, just cities in UK, France, Germany and Australia, so what do I know? I find that I can trip most light sensors by laying the bike over almost flat on top of them. As long as it's a metal, not carbon fiber, frame, it should be enough to trip it. There are a few that don't work this way, admittedly. |
Originally Posted by Lot's Knife
(Post 11510816)
Red lights exist to keep bikes from veering. Mark it.
|
Originally Posted by jputnam
(Post 11504622)
Cyclists generally have far more liability insurance for their bikes than the average motorist.
Unlike motoring, bicycling carries such negligible risk that it is included in the basic personal liability coverage of renter's insurance or homeowner's insurance. A million dollars of liability insurance for a whole family on bikes costs less than a month of minimal auto liability coverage for one car with one driver. |
Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
(Post 11518179)
This seems very dubious to me. I predict that if a cyclist were to try and use any of that million dollars of liability insurance to cover themselves for a cycling accident - for example, the guy in Renton who killed the old lady on the Cedar River Trail - the insurance company would refuse to pay. I very much doubt that any renter's or home owner's policy will cover liability from a bike accident that happened outside the home. ( Among many reasons, I suspect that if I were wrong here, drivers would be doing the same thing instead of carrying specialized driving insurance... )
Obviously, you should check with your insurance provider and not just assume that you're covered. Most will happily accept an extension of your existing coverage to a low risk activity like cycling if it means keeping you as a customer; they will also happily deny payment on activities that haven't been explicitly outlined in your coverage beforehand, should an incident occur. Also, from what I understand, personal liability won't cover your medical costs, so you probably should still roll with health insurance. |
Originally Posted by Lot's Knife
(Post 11510816)
Red lights exist to keep bikes from veering. Mark it.
|
Originally Posted by trekker pete
(Post 11495037)
+1
After watching joeybike's crazy videos and reading his take on urban biking, I am convinced this is way to ride in such conditions. He has come to the conclusion that if you rely on anyone else to keep you from being smushed, you will eventually be smushed. Assume you are the invisible cyclist, because in reality, it's not far from the truth. And being invisible, you are reliant on getting yourself out of the way. So long as you have some sort of forward speed, you have the ability to do this. When you are stopped at a light, one foot on the pavement, you're a sitting duck, make that invisible sitting duck.
Originally Posted by hairytoes
(Post 11505971)
It's my experience that drivers treat you like you treat them - ride aggressively, and you get aggression back. There is a big difference between being aggressive and being assertive. Heck, I've had taxi drivers slow down and drive in front of me so I could draft them.
Never ridden in New York, just cities in UK, France, Germany and Australia, so what do I know? |
I'd go to court. Not to get off, but to argue the fine down. It's clearly set that high because of 4000# cagers running lights, causing lots of damage. Your 30# vehicle isn't going to cause serious bodily harm to anyone.
|
Originally Posted by Standalone
(Post 11462465)
My wife gets tickets all the time in the city. Nabbed by a camera running yellows...
Her last one was $50. In a car. Nearly $300 for a bike running a red is over the top. $270 is reedickulouse! |
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:32 PM. |
Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.