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Camcorder Pays off on Day one

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Old 10-28-10 | 04:51 AM
  #26  
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If I do that I'd spend all my evenings writing letters like this But, I'm glad you received such a positive and personal response.
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Old 10-28-10 | 05:17 AM
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Good on them, that's quite remarkable for them to be so responsive. Hopefully one good side effect of the recession is weeding out the crappy companies w/o service.
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Old 10-28-10 | 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by itsthewoo
I don't mean to attack you, but it looks like you were riding awfully close to the right side of the road.
You are correct - I was too close to the shoulder. That section of road is wide enough that if I hug the white line, a regular sized car can give me three feet by just touching the center line. So there I was, trying not to be a PITA, and that was the price I paid. Lesson Learned.
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Old 10-28-10 | 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris Pringle
Pharasz: Amazing the way you handled this and the immediate response you got from the owners of the business. Out of curiosity, what type/brand of video recorder were you using?
The camera is an ATC2K (latest model is a 3K) from Oregon Scientific. It is waterproof to 10 feet, and comes with a mounting kit which provides 3 or 4 different options for mounting it - one of which is designed for bicycle handlebars (which is where I have mine). This model holds a 2 GB memory card, but the ATC3K will hold a 4 GB. I get about 55 minutes of video on my 2GB card. My commute is 15 miles one way so it just about fills the card for a one way commute. The sound on it is useless, however, so you only get silent video. But it serves its purpose beautifully.
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Old 10-28-10 | 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by itsthewoo
No, I'm not attacking him. I'm allowing him to respond and withholding my opinion until then.

I find it unlikely (not impossible) that the truck passed that close to him (and ended up in the positions show in the photo) while he was taking the lane.
I'm not sure what the laws are in your state, but where I ride you are to be "as far to the right as practicable" And you "May use the shoulder". I commute every day, and most times I've got a nice debris free shoulder, but there are a few parts where I don't, I ride about dead center between where a cars right tire goes, and the painted white line. It's where I feel there is enough room for me to navigate, as well as enough room for a car to get past without going the whole way into the opposing lane. If I'm traveling at or above the posted speed limit, I move out and take the lane.

I find it a bit insulting that you would imply riding in this manner increases my chances for issue. Cars are just as likely to squeeze you if you take the lane, if just out of anger at where you are.

Joe
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Old 10-28-10 | 06:55 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by gerald_g
"Accept" to receive with approval or favor.

That's a kind of funny typo.
I was hoping that wasn't the only person thinking about that...
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Old 10-28-10 | 07:20 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by gerald_g
"Accept" to receive with approval or favor.

That's a kind of funny typo.
I noticed that too, but decided to just let it go and take it in the spirit it was intended.

Originally Posted by pharasz
You are correct - I was too close to the shoulder. That section of road is wide enough that if I hug the white line, a regular sized car can give me three feet by just touching the center line. So there I was, trying not to be a PITA, and that was the price I paid. Lesson Learned.
Do you use a rearview mirror? If not, I suggest getting one. I monitor traffic behind me. I ride in the middle of the lane more or less, and actually use my lane position to communicate with drivers behind me. If there is plenty of room and no approaching traffic, I move to the right tire track. As cars pass me, I move even a little further right to give extra distance to the car. If there is not so much room, I get as far to the left as I can without giving room to pass me on the right, and when there is room, I move to the right tire track. I still prefer to make cars change lanes to pass me; I don't like passing in the same lane unless it's a rather wide lane. Here in Texas, AFRAP doesn't apply to lanes less than 14 feet wide.

Originally Posted by josephjhaney
I find it a bit insulting that you would imply riding in this manner increases my chances for issue. Cars are just as likely to squeeze you if you take the lane, if just out of anger at where you are.

Joe
It's not an insult, it's science. There have been several studies done and the results are that passing distance is increased as a rider moves further out into the lane. When you are all the way to the right, you barely register in the driver's consciousness and your position is an invitation to pass without changing lanes. When you are directly in front of him, you are his primary focus and you force the driver to make sure there is room in the next lane over to pass, and he actually uses it, which gives much more room to a cyclist.

It isn't cut and dry though; there are times when I do move to the right. The best way to discern what is best is to be able to easily see behind you which is why I think a mirror is essential when riding out on the road.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 10-28-10 | 07:41 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by itsthewoo
I'm not excusing the driver of the truck, but riding extremely close to the shoulder will make drivers think they can weasel past you. Taking the lane in that situation means that they have to actually pass you safely.
You mean he was begging for it on the shoulder, just like all those naughty scantily clad little hussies.....

Well played, pharasz. And extraordinarily reasonable and responsive words from the company; hopefully, the deeds follow. See you all at the Rally to Restore Sanity.

Lots of shades of grey on the take the lane thing, very debatable, I don't find a convincing argument on either side. Ultimately, situational dependent and usually players' choice. But definitely a nice reminder of another BF commuter repeat offense for my list.
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Old 10-28-10 | 07:56 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by josephjhaney
Cars are just as likely to squeeze you if you take the lane, if just out of anger at where you are.
I have to agree with this, which is why I resist taking the lane when it isn't required to protect my safety.

As a recent example of this, last week, I took the lane on a 'quiet' residential street, such that I was actually positioned to the left-hand side of the lane because of the parked cars on the right, and the very narrow street profile at the point in question (the top of a short hill).
Despite my aggressive positioning, and my quite reasonable speed, I had a young man in a 3 series BMW pass me ON THE LEFT such that he was completely in the oncoming lane (actually, so far over that he was in the space where cars occasionally park on that side of the road).

I had very intentionally taken the lane because a) the road is too narrow and has too little LOS to permit a safe pass, regardless of my lane position, b) I was close to or at the speed limit on said residential street and c) I want to discourage exactly the kind of bone-headed maneuver this young man performed.

Fortunately for both of us, there was no oncoming vehicle at that particular moment, but that was sheer dumb luck.

The law in my jurisdiction also requires me to 'ride as far to the right as practicable.'
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Old 10-28-10 | 08:33 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by CptjohnC
as far to the right as practicable.
That means as far to the right as you need to be in order to be safe, avoid debris, etc. This is likely spelled out in the law (it's pretty clear in Texas law anyway). The exception that blows it away in many cases is that it only applies when the lane width is at least 14 feet, which disqualifies a lot of the roads I ride. The other exception is that if there is not enough room (regardless of the measured lane width) for safe operation of a bicycle and a car in the same lane, which covers a lot of curves and limited visibility conditions. It's a good idea to look up the laws and find out what you're legally able to do.

As for the BMW that passed in the oncoming lane, I try not ot let it bother me if cars pass me on a double yellow or whatever. I won't encourage it by moving to the right before they make their move, but once they commit, if there is no oncoming traffic, I'll give them as much room as I can. If there is oncoming traffic, I'll move even further left and put my left arm out and down with my palm open, facing backwards. That is pretty clearly "No! Don't pass!" to drivers and they always ease up. Once the oncoming traffic is clear I move right and wave the car around me and usually get a friendly wave or honk once they realize I saved them from a close call (or worse).
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 10-28-10 | 08:44 AM
  #36  
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I actually ran a red light on dekalb (on a totally clear street) yesterday and a delivery truck guy pulled up beside me and said "listen I'm a biker too, the cops will ticket you there"... so it was a bizarro situation... the delivery guy in a huge truck was reprimanding me. I apologized and then we talked about bikes throughout the next red light.

Originally Posted by AdamDZ
If I do that I'd spend all my evenings writing letters like this But, I'm glad you received such a positive and personal response.
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Old 10-28-10 | 08:45 AM
  #37  
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I'm one of the "taking the lane" believers. In this case it is a four lane road and the driver can easily take the left lane when it clears enough to do so. I think this case supports the "taking the lane" argument. I consider it a lesson learned and will start riding three feet out. There is a curb on the shoulder so I had nowhere to go as this huge truck sloooowly rolled by me (I was going about 20 MPH with a tail wind).

On mirrors: I acquired a mirror after being hit from behind by a car about four months ago. In that case I was claiming the lane and the driver simply was not looking where they were going (obviously texting or otherwise distracted). The problem is I have drop handle bars and mounting a mirror is nearly impossible. I did find a mirror which plugged into the handlebar end. It was a bit too small, it was parabolic to provide a wide angle so the images in it were too tiny to make out, and my sweat would pour all over it so it was always smudged up and nearly useless. One day my leg bumped and knocked it out of the socket and it went flying down the road. I didn't bother to turn around and go pick it up. I just didn't find it all that useful.
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Old 10-28-10 | 08:50 AM
  #38  
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Not that you were wrong at all, but my philosophy is if I am riding the white line and a car passes me within even six inches, I'm fine with it. I believe that if one rides with confidence, like you're supposed to be there (not that you weren't), this gives the driver a sense that YOU know what you're doing and a close pass isn't that big of a deal. After all, we ballyhoo endlessly about how much of a right we have to be in the road, this is part of it. I do agree though that there can be 'too close' and that you experienced one of these times.

That being said, as a driver I always, always, ALWAYS slow down if I must in order to take the next lane over when passing a cyclist.
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Old 10-28-10 | 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by RTDub
Not that you were wrong at all, but my philosophy is if I am riding the white line and a car passes me within even six inches, I'm fine with it. I believe that if one rides with confidence, like you're supposed to be there (not that you weren't), this gives the driver a sense that YOU know what you're doing and a close pass isn't that big of a deal. After all, we ballyhoo endlessly about how much of a right we have to be in the road, this is part of it. I do agree though that there can be 'too close' and that you experienced one of these times.

That being said, as a driver I always, always, ALWAYS slow down if I must in order to take the next lane over when passing a cyclist.
That's an interesting take on the subject. I try to actively control my situation on the street. Sometimes I take the lane, sometimes I ride far to the right (usually when the right lane is very wide). The one issue I'll throw in there is that there is some (hopefully very small) portion of the driving public that will think they are giving you enough room to pass, but aren't very good at judging distances and you end up with a mirror in your back or whatever. Do you need 3 feet of space when a car passes? Of course not, but I don't trust that all drivers can judge the positon of the right side mirror to within 6 inches.
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Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 10-28-10 | 11:39 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Doohickie
Do you need 3 feet of space when a car passes? Of course not, but I don't trust that all drivers can judge the positon of the right side mirror to within 6 inches.
now this brings us to the "3 Foot Law" https://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

unfortunately not all states have this law.

I for one, wish that California would adopt this law.

i.e. a few years ago I was hit by a driver who drove over the white line (fog line), and struck me with the collapsable mirror on their mini van, while adjusting the window with their dog in the passenger seat, while kids yelling in the back, etc...

luckily, I was not injured! as crazy as that is. I was riding up hill (less than 5mph) and way into the shoulder of the road, the driver passed by so fast (about 45mph), when the mirror struck my elbow, it knocked me off my bike. I dialed 911, and it took forever for the cops to show up. This was on HWY 68 in Pacific Grove, Ca. The CHP showed up, along with the Sheriff. Now the crazy part about California Law, is that... its not against the law to hit people with a car.

if the 3ft law were to be adopted, then there'd be a legislative body in place.
its when people sue for damages/pain and suffering that hitting someone with a car becomes an issue.
typically when people get hit by drivers loosing control of their vehicle, people get hurt... however... in my instance, I was lucky.

now days, I often use a Go Pro Hero cam, and my Garmin 705 is my primary bike computer, therefor able to that much more accurately document just about anything.

Last edited by AsanaCycles; 10-28-10 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 10-28-10 | 12:59 PM
  #41  
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Sometimes I feel like I should ride like I am drunk and swerve left to right within a certain margin. I am sure people would do their best to avoid me then.

Otherwise, great letter. It sounds like they will take it seriously. The owner of the company is a cyclist also and knows the hassles that come with it.
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Old 10-29-10 | 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Doohickie
That means as far to the right as you need to be in order to be safe, avoid debris, etc. This is likely spelled out in the law...

Once the oncoming traffic is clear I move right and wave the car around me and usually get a friendly wave or honk once they realize I saved them from a close call (or worse).
as to the law... what I typed is most of what there is. No 14 foot law provision, no 3 foot law, etc... as far as I know (and yes, I've looked). There's a list of enumerated reasons not to be all the way to the right, but OPs original situation might not have qualified, interestingly.

And folks in Texas must be way nicer than folks here -- I can't envision the friendly wave from 90% of drivers here even if you do keep them out of worse trouble.
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Old 10-29-10 | 10:11 AM
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Just saw that frame grab.

Yep, that looks pretty tight.
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