That gave me a face-palm moment. I have always attributed the swaying on my bike to the frame, not the rack. So I wondered why I didn't get that nasty swaying feeling anymore when the panniers were loaded, and I vaguely thought something about the loads being smaller or similar. It was until I read what you wrote that I realized the swaying stopped after I put on my Tubus Logo rack.

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Regards

Your bike is a Sport geometry boarding on a race frame and those are HUGE panniers. You are likely going to have heel strike issues. The Ortliebs are highly adjustable and you need a rack that lets you move the panniers back a good bit. Something like a Super tourist or the Tubus that has the rear leg loop out farther to provide a stable mount point so they don't sway. The basic explorer or racks that the rear leg comes down at a 45degree angle straight to the lower mount is not going to cut it.
You want something like this https://www.ortliebusa.com/CartGenie/prod-3.htm

I'm partial to my Super tourist since I can hang the pannier on the lower rail improving CG and also allowing me to use a trunk bag but with your short wheel base it may make your heel strike potential worse.

https://www.ortliebusa.com/CartGenie/prod-81.htm
Tubus claims that rack improves heel clearance but I am having trouble visualizing it without seeing it on a bike. It may shift it WAY back.

The down side is moving he weight back (and on the top rail) is going to make the bike handle funny because it acts like a pendulum. Thats why Touring bikes have long chain stays. It gets the weight closer or in front of the rear axle.

I really don't think that Ortlieb Back-Rollers are huge. They are in fact slightly smaller than many other touring panniers from Vaude or Arkel. Besides that, they are tapered at the bottom instead of being just square which helps against heel strike. So does the excellent mounting system that means you can move the pannier quite a way back.

Since the Tubus Vega is the same as the Tubus Logo just without the double rails, I can give a good estimate on heel strike. On a bike with 42 cm chain stays (vs 40,5 cm for the Allez) there are ample space between the Back-Roller and the heel at any realistic angle. The shoes are Shimano winter boots size 13 (US), crank arms are std. 172,5 mm, the cleat is placed in the middle position.

All in all there should be a good chance that the OP won't have heel strike with the Tubus Vega rack, even with short chain stays.

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Regards

Sway? How much weight are we talking about? I've never noticed this, but I normally don't carry much more than 30 pounds on a rear rack. (And, above 30 pounds, swaying is the least of my concerns... the burning in my legs is much more disconcerting )

Great advice all. Keep it coming!

Weight was probably around 20 pounds (single pannier) to 30 pounds (two panniers). I normally don't ride fast when the bike is loaded, but on this route there was a long downhill slope where I picked up speed. It was there the swaying usually manifested itself. I felt like the rear triangle was wobbling from side to side.

I knew it wasn't the wheel because 36H 3X wheels are as lateral stiff as they get, and the panniers are very securely locked to the rack too. In hindsight I should have suspected the lightweight alu rack, but even before I had ridden this new bike with any weight on, I had some preconceived notion that it would be slightly wobbly under load because it was a light racing/audax frame, not a touring rig. So I just assumed it was the frame that was the problem.

It wasn't before I read "tsl"'s comment I realized I hadn't had the same rear swaying this season where I have used a Tubus Logo steel rack.

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Regards

i have had 3 racks fail over the last 10-12 years, all decent racks but not Tubus. One was the stock rack that came with my Miyata 1000. One rack that has fared well is a very old Blackburn but it has not seen as much use as the 3 damaged racks. I am an everyday rider/commuter, tour often so my bikes and racks see a ton of use. I ride dirt and pavement. Next rack I buy will be a Tubus. If I was a casual rider my racks that I owned would have been fine. Since I really use and abuse my gear I going for a stronger rack.

I've got a Tubus Cargo rack and it is extremely well made and light considering its strength. Velo-Orange.com sells a knock-off version for less money that is stainless steel, but they are currently out of stock.

https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...urs/racks.html

That said, I removed my rack after using it for one month because I didn't need it for commuting. I use a Carradice Barley for commuting and it is large enough to carry everything I need. Panniers with a rack would be much heavier and provide a lot of un-needed space for my needs.

I've had really good luck with Axiom Streamliner racks. They're pretty cheap, but much stiffer than your typical Blackburn/Nashbar cheap rack. I haven't had felt any sway, even with a load of groceries. As for durability, mine haven't broken so far.

They also have a built-in light bracket, so you don't have to use one of those flimsy L-shaped brackets which will inevitably break and drop your nice tail light under the wheels of a car.

I've had very good results with the Racktime StandIt for loads up to 25Kg.

https://www.ortliebusa.com/CartGenie/prod-195.htm

My understanding is that they're essentially Tubus racks, but made in aluminum, and sold at half the price.

Whether that's true or not, both my Racktime racks are well-made and sturdy.

I've got that Streamliner mounted with ss straps instead of the jointed rods because the rods and mounts extended down too far into the fenders on a CrossCheck. It has less side to side play than a Tubus Cargo on my LHT. I think a lot of the weak points in some racks come from how far the rack is extended back from the seatstays. I put a larger Axiom Journey on a bike and it wasn't anywhere as solid as the Tubus or the Streamliner.

I have a 2005 Specialized Allez and my thought is if you want to use standard sized panniers, your going to want a rack that either mounts further back than normal or is longer than normal. Even with smaller panniers on a regular rack I had to move the mounts on the panniers forward and down so that the bags were up a couple of inches and back as far as they would go in order to prevent heal strike. I don't have very big feet either.

OK, I got the Tubus Logo. I have to wait for Xmas to get the panniers so I'm not going to install it yet. I'll post a pic of the set up after Xmas. Thank you everybody for your opinions!

I like the Topeak Super Tourist. Although that's a rack designed for bikes with disc brakes. I have two, one on my commuter and one on the touring bike. The one on the touring bike isn't as abused as the one on the commuter. I've had it for almost a year now and carried all kinds of stuff on it, hitting potholes while loaded with fruit and veggies, no problems.

racks that cost over a hundred bucks imho are not worth it. Yes, if I were to do a superlong trip over rough roads and rugged terrain, yes. But in the 25 years that I have been commuting and doing trips, the 25-40 dollar ones work fine for my needs.

as someone has mentioned, the amount of weight is a big factor. I used to put probably max of 30 lbs on the rear, and never had any issues. Yes, I could see how a rack that weighed a lot more than the various racks that I have owned would be stiffer, but honestly, its not been a problem for me.

Here in the part of Canada that I live in, for $30 you can get a good sturdy, three "bar" rack (you know how some only have 2 vertical supports)

I see spending the money saved on not buying a $150 rack on other things such as a lighter tent or whatever. I guess all I believe is that one can have a great touring experience with reasonably priced stuff. I do however have no regrets on buying Ortlieb bags, as I have mentioned in other threads, my pair are about 17 years old, used year in year out, commuting mostly but tours too. More costly but they have lasted and lasted, so were cheaper in the long run and my stuff is always dry.

You could try this, https://www.amazon.com/Axiom-Journey-...2338624&sr=8-1
Ive had if you a few months now and it will for sure support its claimed 150pounds though im sure the dropout braze ons would fail before it does. The one bad thing about it is the seat stay rods don't have a whole lot of adjustment to them, and im pretty sure it was designed with 700c in mind although it says it will fit others.

OK, here's the Tubus Logo with my first load for the commute tomorrow. I'm "hauling" a gift basket (regift) for the company xmas white elephant luncheon. Panniers are, hopefully, coming for xmas.

[img=https://s3.postimage.org/8q0kmlhg/photo.jpg]

Crap, now that I look at the photo, I'm wondering if it's going to fall off before I get there. Oh well, we'll see.

Don't see a pic.

Good news, it made it.

I ended up with the Tubus Logo. I'm happy to have the extra clearance (size 13 shoe) along with a lower center of gravity. I've only been using one of my Ortlieb Backrollers just because it gives me plenty of room for what I need to carry. Here's how she looks, notice how far back the bag is, don't think I could do that with other racks. Thanks for all of your opinions, it really helped!

40l? That's big alright. My single pannier is 20l and it's a bit tight, 30l would be perfect for the average commuter (and you can always leave a change of clothes in the office).

What I would be most concerned about is heelstrike, but if I recall the Ortleibs are angled to protect against just that. Might be a good one to decide at the LBS with your bike and panniers in hand to make sure the fit is right.

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Silly me, realized now this is an update. Glad your choice worked out! Looks like you have plenty of room back there.

+1, because he's putting it on an Allez which has shorter stays to begin with. It's only money

Looks good... But is the rack tilted backwards from level or is it just the optics of the picture?

This.

I've got a cheap axiom rack on my commuter and a very expensive rack on my tourer (it came with the bike luckily), and there is definitely a noticable difference, mainly when concerning lateral stability. I know that BG rack costs nearly $200, and that is a lot, but it'll last forever, after all it is "the Mecedes Benz of racks"!