Okay, so I've pretty much outfitted my current commuter (2011 Kona Dr. Fine) with all the gear I like. I've heard a lot of talk on here about how great various rims are on various bikes, and a friend with more experience told me that good rims can be more important than even the frame.

Do you agree with that? If so, what would be an ultimate commuter rim that would improve upon the stock Freedom Ryder rims that come with the Kona Dr. Fine (and the Norco Ceres and others, I think)?

I use 32 tires and really like that middle ground between too thin and too wide for my type of commute (asphalt suburban streets, 18 miles roundtrip).

no I don't agree with that. Given that the rim is a part of the wheel and a perfectly good wheel can be inoperable with a broken spoke because of a poorly built or maintained wheel I'd say as long as the rim is appropriate for the load and tire how the wheel was built and maintained is more important than whether it's a $80 or $20rim. When I say maintained I mean if it's a stock machine made wheel and it goes slightly out of round and isn't corrected or has some tension anomalies (poorly built) that aren't caught in the first few weeks of riding.

I might agree that the wheels are as important as the frame, but not the rims alone.

Dream wheels? It depends on your bike.

Frame makes a bike. Wheels make the bike move. Both need to be around equal quality for an enjoyable and reliable ride but it's really hard to say what's more important. You need to have it all balanced. $400 wheels on a $100 Nashbar frame? Not necessary. $100 wheels on a $600 steel touring frame? Probably not a good idea.

It's the same with all other parts. You're not going to put XTR drivetrain on a $200 Wallmart bike or Tektro parts on a $1000 Yeti frame. There needs to be a balance and certain match up of quality.

As others pointed out: a rim is a part that makes the wheel. The spokes, the nipples and the hubs and the quality of the build matter here. You can have super-duper rims, spokes and hubs but ****ty built while a good wheelbuilder can build a set of wheels for $100 that will outperform and outlast your super-duper wheels.

There is no need to go overboard with wheels for most commuter bikes. I have a set of wheels on my commuter built around entry level Mavic rims that was under $150 and they so far can take all the abuse I have to offer. After a year of loaded commuting not a broken spoke and still perfectly true.

So price doesn't always equal quality. You don't have to spend hundreds on commuter wheels. Even wheels built around cheap components will last years if built and tensioned by someone who knows what they're doing.

The frame is just a part of the bike that you attach other parts to. There's nothing particularly special about the frame, just as there is nothing particularly special about the saddle, wheels, crank, fork, etc.

If you are looking to upgrade your bike, the wheels are a good place to start, as stock wheels are typically not very good. A nice wheelset makes a difference, but good wheels are fairly expensive, and upgrading other parts often gives you more bang for the buck.

The three factors you have to consider with virtually all bike components are light, strong and cheap . . . you can't have all three.

Respectfully disagree

Yeah, probably depends more on you the rider. I'm still closer to 300 than to 200 in the weight category despite well over 3,000 miles in the saddle this year. As such, I can say that a well-built wheel with a good solid rim can make a BIG difference, especially for rear wheels.

There are several factors that contribute to a quality wheel, and the rim is only one of them. All other things being equal, stronger rims tend to have deeper profiles and are double-walled.

If you're heavier like me and want to avoid broken spokes, then other factors including the rim become much more important. If you only weigh 150, then a cheap machine built wheel with 32 or 36 spokes retensioned by a mechanic or wheelbuilder will probably serve you just fine for most purposes.

My rear wheel has a Velocity Dyad rim, 14 guage spokes, and a Shimano Deore LX hub. I've ridden my bike over 3,000 miles on that wheel and had only one broken spoke, which was caused by debris lodged between spokes and not another general structural defect. I got it new for $125. For my particular set of requirements, it's pretty much a dream wheel. FWIW, I also run 32 mm tires now, which my rim takes beautifully.

I'm all ears. Please explain.

We'll run out of popcorn. I don't want to get into this but this was one of the most outlandish statements I have read in a while

So you're saying whether it's a $99 Nashbar aluminum frame, $500 Surly steel frame, or $1000 Yeti carbon frame, it's "just a part"? And there is absolutely nothing special about them? Have you ever built a bike by yourself? Why don't we all ride those cheap frames Walmart uses to put together $100 bikes?

Oh, and a $15 plastic Wallmart saddle is just as fine as $100 WTB or $200 Brooks saddle? There is nothing special about saddles, hmmm....

Then why we bother...

The question is: why is the frame such an important component of a bike vs. all of the other components of a bike? The question is not whether one frame, wheelset or saddle is better than another. I think we agree on the latter question.

Frame fit matters. Wheels don't exactly need fit in size, but their function may need to fit, but so do frames. Its pretty hard to separate the bike into one piece being better quality than another is more important since ultimately you need a whole bike.

EKW touched on it already but in my non-expert opinion about wheels it matters alot the type of rider you are weight and skill. If you ride hard and have issues with your wheels then it might be a bigger deal than the frame. If you are really skilled at riding your bike you might be able to do all kinds of things to it and because know how to unload your weight and not really end up with much stress on your wheels. That nots me I can just ride and nothing else. =P Additionally imho you can have a great wheel and or frame, but if you have the wrong tires the whole bike can kinda suck. Tires can REALLY matter as much as anything else depending on what you want the bike to do. Ultimately it depends on what purpose the bike is for and how picky you are to quantify what is the most important.

Im assuming by rims the OP means Wheels? if so than yes the wheel set is one of the most important parts IMO they dont need to be crazy expensive though, i agree with what EKW posted i as well run deore hubs and have been pretty happy. Im a light weight rider (less than 150) so i only run 28 spokes and have been pretty happy with my set up. WTB Dx-23 rims, DT swiss spokes and nipples with deore hubs i think i had em built for 200 out the door, and have about 4k miles on them.

You said: "There's nothing particularly special about the frame, just as there is nothing particularly special about the saddle, wheels, crank, fork, etc." which sounds to me that any frame, saddle, wheel, crank, fork, etc will do, since there is nothing special about them. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

The frame makes the bike what it is. All the other parts are just components. The type, the style, the features and the geometry of the frame affect the choice of all the components that go on it. You don't just slap random parts on any frame, do you? The frame will also decide the basic riding characteristics, riding position and riding style of a bicycle.

But then, it's just my opinion, there you go.

As someone who builds wheels as a large part of my current profession, I would have to say that yes, rims are important - but they're only part of several factors that determine whether or not your wheels are good.

There are also lots of factors in the grade of a wheel!

The grade of wheel build is extremely important. I'd rather ride a masterfully built wheel made with $80 in components than a lazily built wheel made with $500 in components.

Prep compound used in the wheel build is important (Spoke prep, grease, nothing, etc)

Choice of spokes can have an effect on durability, of course. As can the choice of spoke nipples!

The choice of hub can have contributing factors, naturally.

Just like with your bicycle, you can have high quality parts on most of the bike, but you can be plagued by a weak link component or by poor assembly. Wheels are just the same.

And I personally believe that also just like bicycles, there is a progression in price levels:

Just as there are cheap junk bicycles, or bicycle shaped objects, there are also cheap junk rims (rim shaped objects)

It doesn't take a lot of money to get out of that category. Just like with bikes, spending a little more to get something that's not junk gives you perfectly serviceable product without breaking the bank.

Now, nicer rims may build up straighter, be stronger and lighter, and have nice features like MSW, wear indicators, etc, but a decent entry level double walled rim is quite acceptable for most moderate use. Never hurts to buy exotic kit if you have the inclination and the cash though

No problem, AdamDZ. Having built and upgraded many bikes over the years, I guess I just view the frame as another part of the whole bike. For example, I have a Surly Troll frame on order (can't wait to get my hands on it) as an upgrade to my current frame, but this is after upgrading the wheels, fork, drivetrain and brakes. The frame was the lowest priority upgrade to me.

OK, at least we agree on something I want the Troll frame too! BTW, what makes the Troll frame so special that you "can't wait to get my hands on it"?!? He he he... Did they say when it'll ship? I haven't preordered it, I want to wait until the specs are finalized and some reviews are out. Are you setting it up as a mountain bike, commuter, tourer? I'm thinking about making it my touring bike. Too nice for daily commute.

I'm setting it up as a daily commuter. The main difference is going from aluminum to steel. Geometry is almost the same as my current frame. Surly is still saying 12/15/10 as the ordering date, so I expect it will ship soon thereafter.

My daily commuter is built around $99 Nashbar frame, which is a decent frame, by the way and I like to keep the commuter "low value" since it's more exposed to the possibility of being stolen. Please post some pics and thoughts, if you don't mind, when you get it!

Adam

Don't think rims, in particular, are more important than the frame, but there is enough quality bits out there to choose from. In general, I think the overall wheel build is quite important for a commuter.

Since you like 32s (I run 28s and 32s on my commuter rigs), I would suggest a slightly wider rim. In order of increasing price/quality/desirability, you might consider Sun CR18, Salsa Delgado, Velocity Dyad, Mavic A719, and DT Swiss T540. Go with with some quality DB spokes, 32 or if heavier 36 spoke, with brass nipples on Shimano 105 or Ultegra hubs (XT if 135mm rear). If you are feeling flush, perhaps King, DT Swiss, or White Industries hubs, but you really can't go wrong with the Shimano hubs.

I certainly will.

If/when you decide to upgrade your rims Sun CR-18 are very good for the money. Though, Mavic A719 are way better for 3 times the money. Alot of strength has to do w/spoke count if the wheel is built correctly. Ie, a 36h rim/hub is stronger than a comparable 32h. This is taking into consideration the wheel is built w/t standard 3x spoke slant. Once in building a wheel for a singlespeed conversion I used spokes from a 27" wheel for a 700 rim. They were too long so I had to go to a 4x...the wheel is ridiculously strong.

My main commuter has 32h Alex 500 rims on which I run 28mm Schwalbe Marathon Plus. 15,000 commuter/utilitarian miles w/one minor truing. My road conditions are similar to yours.

Depending on whether you prefer the high or low flange look either the Sun or the Alex would probably suffice, but the Sun is a much stronger rim being triple butted. The Mavics? There're thousands of testamonies to their superior qualities. Especially if they're wedded to a Phil Wood or White Industries hub w/some DT triple butted spokes...but now were in the area of the insane, costwise.

With a bike; the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Other posters have alluded to it but if you are comfortable on a $20 saddle and someone offers you a $100 saddle that you don't find comfortable, why would you ride the $100 saddle?

I am interested in knowing why your friend feels rims can be more important than the frame, or what aspects (i.e. geometry, frame material, etc) he is comparing it to?

Whats funny is my frame was the least expensive part on my bike at a whopping 12 bucks

Are rims important, yes are they the most important part on the bike...no.

I typically run 36 hole 3x hand built wheels. Components vary depending on the bike. I prefer box section rims with eyelets and 14 ga stainless steel spokes. My favorite all around rim is the Sun CR-18, best bang for the buck that I have found. I run them in 4 different sizes at the moment. I also have a couple sets of Sun Rhyno Lites. The other bikes have whatever came on them from the factory, ranging from pure crap to must be good it has lasted 40 years.

A properly built and tensioned wheel IMHO is more important than the actual components. I can take middle of the road components, hand build and tension a wheel and have it out perform and outlast a poorly built wheel of top shelf components. FWIW I have seen bikes that cost over $2,000usd that had wheels that were in such poor shape that they were all but worthless. I have an all steel wheel on one of my old Raleighs that I rebuilt years ago that is still chugging along after 35 years of abuse and around 30,000 miles. It could stand to be replaced the chrome is pretty well worn off the braking surface.

Aaron

Overall, I'd say the rims...specifically the make or brand of rim, not the material...are the least important part of a wheel. You seldom see a rim fail catastrophically but you see spokes fail a lot. The spoke does all the heavy lifting when it comes to the wheel. The rim is mostly along for the ride.

Most people make the same mistake about wheels. They pick the hubs and the rims and then say "Oh, just use any ol' spoke." That's just wrong. Pick the spokes then build the wheels around them. You'll have a better wheel. And good wheels are almost more important than the frame.