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If a bicycle and a car come to a stop sign at almost the same time.

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If a bicycle and a car come to a stop sign at almost the same time.

Old 12-13-10, 07:34 AM
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kraken9911
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If a bicycle and a car come to a stop sign at almost the same time.

Say a car beats you to a stop sign by 1-2 seconds. Why is it an issue for them to wait another 2-3 seconds for you to blow the stop sign? It takes a lot of effort to maintain a 20+mph pace.

You're sitting on a leather recliner probably driving an automatic transmission and the only muscle you will engage is that of one leg. You can wait a little longer.
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Old 12-13-10, 07:42 AM
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Because it's the law? Because I don't trust the car? Lack of broken bones and preservation of my bike are good enough reasons for me not to blow the stop sign, especially in front of an unpredictable car.
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Old 12-13-10, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by kraken9911 View Post
Say a car beats you to a stop sign by 1-2 seconds. Why is it an issue for them to wait another 2-3 seconds for you to blow the stop sign? It takes a lot of effort to maintain a 20+mph pace.

You're sitting on a leather recliner probably driving an automatic transmission and the only muscle you will engage is that of one leg. You can wait a little longer.
Relative effort has nothing to do with rights of way and traffic law. Also, all this talke about effort means nothing to a person who has no recent experience on a bicycle. But even if they did, right of way and traffic law take precendence.
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I stop for people / whose right of way I honor / but not for no one.


Originally Posted by bragi "However, it's never a good idea to overgeneralize."
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Old 12-13-10, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by kraken9911 View Post
Say a car beats you to a stop sign by 1-2 seconds. Why is it an issue for them to wait another 2-3 seconds for you to blow the stop sign? It takes a lot of effort to maintain a 20+mph pace.

You're sitting on a leather recliner probably driving an automatic transmission and the only muscle you will engage is that of one leg. You can wait a little longer.
So where do you draw the line? It's easy to make a case for a second or two but how long would you expect a car to wait for a cyclist who doesn't have priority?

If we expect cars to wait a second or two, how long before that "second or two" becomes several seconds, and from there how long before cars are expected to yield to cyclists regardless of how long it takes? Obeying the rules of the road is just one of those things you have to do even on a bike, even if it's inconvenient.
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Old 12-13-10, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by IR Baboon View Post
Because it's the law? Because I don't trust the car? Lack of broken bones and preservation of my bike are good enough reasons for me not to blow the stop sign, especially in front of an unpredictable car.
I used to worry about the legality of "blowing a stop sign" and apologize for cyclists until one day I counted cars at a stop sign and found that 83 out of 100 should have been cited for at least one and, in some cases, two violations. The whole story can be found here:http://simplecycle-marc.blogspot.com...gized-for.html
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Old 12-13-10, 08:22 AM
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Well said in your blog sir. I'm less worried about the law, and more worried about my own self preservation. Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
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Old 12-13-10, 08:42 AM
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I find that a little courtesey and mutall respect for cars at stop sign goes a long ways will save me more time. When drivers see my intention of blowing through a stop sign, they usually will not come to a complete stop themselves and I find myself coming to a complete stop unless I want to crash into them.

If I just slow down a bit and give good eye contact with a friendly facial expression, majority of the time the driver will signal me to pass and they even stop behind the crosswalk. I only lose a little momentum here in this case as compared to having come to a complete stop.
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Old 12-13-10, 08:47 AM
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Ive found most the cars in my area at all way stops will wave me through, other wise as im approaching the intersection i take a look and see iff there is any cars coming from other directions and if there is i just anticipate the stop. I dont like waiting for cars and im sure they dont like waiting for me it's a two way street.
Even here in boise where cyclists are allow to go through stops sign without out stopping, still have to yield to other traffic, and my motto is give a little get a little.
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Old 12-13-10, 08:51 AM
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Sure they can, but the rule is when two vehicles arrive at a 4 way stop at the same time, the vehicle to right goes first. It's not that hard to be courteous, just to push the pedals a little.

It's one thing to advocate running reds when there is no cross traffic, it's another to advocate being rude to other vehicle operators.

Plus you'll live longer if you slow down and wait for them to wave you through.
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Old 12-13-10, 08:56 AM
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When I'm cycling in the UK there are times when other drivers have priority and wave me through, presumably to save me having to stop and then regain momentum. Other times it's a clear case where I have priority and drivers come through anyway. Even if it's clearly and unambiguously my priority I'd still rather stop than plough into something and get myself injured or worse.

The trouble is every time a cyclist does something boneheaded they reinforce the perception a number of people have that all cyclists are boneheaded and inconsiderate.
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Old 12-13-10, 09:02 AM
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I can't even get cars to "wait 3 seconds" when they have a stop sign and I don't.

I was about 10" from the rear quarterpanel of a black Mercedes this morning in the snow for that reason.

And you want to up the ante?
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Old 12-13-10, 11:43 AM
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Many drivers don't know what to do when they see a cyclist on the road, probably because they live somewhere that commuting by bicycle just isn't common. Here most bike commuters are fsu students who park in a garage and bicycle to class so when I'm riding around the whole city I sometimes encounter the "whoa, weird situation, please get on the sidewalk dude" driver when I pull up at a stop sign or traffic light.

I always slow down to be ready to stop at a stop sign, just in case it isn't as clear as it appears to be. And if a driver and I pull up at opposite stop signs I'll let them go first, unless they're really nervous and won't budge till I've passed. Sometimes they get extra jittery when I trackstand, "Is he stopping? Is he going? Oh my god, get on the sidewalk!"
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Old 12-13-10, 11:47 AM
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If we are having a standoff,I can out wait them,they'll run out of gas at some point.
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Old 12-13-10, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by kraken9911 View Post
It takes a lot of effort to maintain a 20+mph pace.
So you're trying to avoid effort while riding a bicycle?
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Old 12-13-10, 12:23 PM
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Make Eye contact, see 'if anyone's Home', with cell phones in the hands of drivers
they may not be 'There'.

If the lights are synchronized at 20 MPH you will make the light,
If not, STOP.

[or let us pick up a 'dead peasant' life insurance policy, on you,
to make money off your being in a big rush, catching up with you]

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-13-10 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 12-13-10, 12:24 PM
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Everything I hear is reinforcing what I found: people stop for threatening traffic (and cops) not stop signs. It all makes me wonder about the experiment I heard of in Europe where a town did away with the traffic controls in the downtown area, supposedly the accident rate declined.
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Old 12-13-10, 01:07 PM
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If you want them to share the road with you, you should follow the same rules.
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Old 12-13-10, 01:18 PM
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When there are cars around, I follow the rules. Many times, however, cars will wave me through when it is clearly their turn. If there is any doubt, I yeild to the big mass of metal.
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Old 12-13-10, 01:36 PM
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Because the right-of-way laws say, "first come, first served." The first driver to arrive at a 4-way stop gets to take his/her turn first, regardless of whether it's a bike or a semi-truck.

And if the cyclist blows the stop sign, he/she is flatly wrong. Maybe dead wrong.
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Old 12-13-10, 01:36 PM
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If the car gets there first then wait them out. I've had people wave me through, flash there lights, and just sit there. I don't budge until after they go through. I've seen them shake there heads (like I did something wrong) or yell at me as they pass. I don't engage them and let them be angry. I pretty much have the same sentiment as Booger1.
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Old 12-13-10, 01:54 PM
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For starters, you probably shouldn't be going 20+mph through an intersection with approaching traffic unless you want to win a Darwin Award in your tricked out racing kit.
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Old 12-13-10, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kraken9911 View Post
Say a car beats you to a stop sign by 1-2 seconds. Why is it an issue for them to wait another 2-3 seconds for you to blow the stop sign? It takes a lot of effort to maintain a 20+mph pace.

You're sitting on a leather recliner probably driving an automatic transmission and the only muscle you will engage is that of one leg. You can wait a little longer.
Say a car with an automatic gearbox beats you to a stop sign by 1-2 seconds and you are driving a stickshift. Why is it an issue for them to wait another 2-3 seconds for you to blow the stop sign? It takes a lot of effort to use the muscles of both legs to brake and declutch and move the gear stick into the right position.

The only muscle you will engage is that of one leg. You can wait a little longer
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Old 12-13-10, 05:54 PM
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Forcing a motor vehicle to stop and start unnecessarily wastes fuel and causes more pollution. A cyclist stopping and starting makes them stronger.
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Old 12-13-10, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
So you're trying to avoid effort while riding a bicycle?


From another thread, titled "Ideas for making a commute tougher?":

Originally Posted by kraken9911 View Post
I have a 15 mile commute and to make it harder I started doing it on a single speed. Between the hills and stop and go's at red lights it's quite a workout. I can do it in under an hour.
OP eschews gears to increase the difficulty of his/her commute, but whines about having to observe proper right of way at 4-ways because it's too much work.
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Old 12-13-10, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kraken9911 View Post
Say a car beats you to a stop sign by 1-2 seconds. Why is it an issue for them to wait another 2-3 seconds for you to blow the stop sign? It takes a lot of effort to maintain a 20+mph pace.

You're sitting on a leather recliner probably driving an automatic transmission and the only muscle you will engage is that of one leg. You can wait a little longer.
The problem is you're not going fast enough. Ramp up the pace a little and you'll clear the intersection before they even get there.

Definitely more meal than a troll deserves!
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