Yes... having a Novatec hub really ruined my last 40 hour brevet [Edit... I should google "brevet"]

I can't say it is at all noticeable on my daily commute. Red lights are the biggest drag.

lots of people use the Shimano dynohubs on long brevets and aren't bothered by the drag. I keep intending to build up a Sanyo to see what it's like. One thing is for sure, I'm not commuting with a Schmidt any time soon.

OK, I'll take your 0.2mph with the light on but I do want to note my light has a switch, I wouldn't leave it on for 40hrs....

I need a heavier bike with more drag so mere mortal riders can keep up with me.

I see a few Shimano hubs in my club, but they're the 3N7x or 3N8x models which are the higher quality ones. The "lower end" Shimano hub I was referring to was the HB-NX30. The HB series predated the DH series and had significant drag issues even with the lamp switched off. Even the old 3N30 hub is better than the NX30.
I've seen more and more people turning to the SON20R on their rando rigs. It's lighter and smaller, since it's designed for a 20" 'bent wheel. But it also requires a 700c rider to go faster to get the same output, since a 700c wheel makes fewer rotations than a 20" wheel at the same speed.


On my rando bike, I use a B&M Senso light, so it's on and off automatically depending on the light conditions. During the dreariest of winter days, that means it might be on constantly. On my non-senso lights, I just leave them on all the time. The LED is rated to last 100,000 hours. That's 11.5 years if I rode 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, non-stop. I'm not slow enough on a brevet for the 15 minutes I lose over the course of a 300k to make much difference, and I'm not fast enough to feel that those 15 minutes are really dragging down my performance.

Regarding the Shimano IGH discussion I just thought I'd throw in my two cents. One of the bikes I've been commuting on the last couple years has a Shimano Nexus SG 8R31 (with the cesur.de disc brake adapter) and aside from a faulty cassette joint it has been comparable to my Alfine I8 (equipped bike) on every level.
So, +1 for fans of Shimano IGH.

That being said this seems like a no brainer for a quality dynamo hub/light combo:
wheel:
https://www.airbomb.com/itemMatrix.as...=&MatrixType=2
doc:
https://techdocs.shimano.com/media/te...9830600131.pdf
Light:
https://aebike.com/page.cfm?action=de...=30&SKU=LT9901

$347.00 all together? Not bad.

I though that randonneuring was all about being non-competitive, what difference does 30 minutes mean on a 40hr ride? Why use time as a metric, not distance?

Anyway, I've have and use the following: Sturmey-Archer Dynohub (2W), Novatec dynamo hub, and a Shimano Alfine dynamo hub. I also have a Son 20R, but I haven't put it into service yet.

I don't ride competitively, so I don't care so much about the drag. I'm happy with the light output, but some guys are never satisfied with the light output. I ride on roads, not trails, so I'm satisfied from the output, even with the old Sturmey-Archer. I have LED lights on all of them, the best one being an Edelux. I'm most happy with the Edelux/Shimano combination, I'm sure when I substitute the SON I'll be even happier. I will say that the Novatec has the most noticeable drag, but it is fine for me, I really dislike battery lights and the hassle of charging them.

I've been very happy with my Supernova E3 Pro. I've used both the asymmetrical and symmetrical lens models, and each has its benefits. For urban riding, the asymmetrical offers excellent illumination in a wide pattern, from 0-60 feet or so. The symmentrical beam is a litttle brighter and casts a longer beam, at the expense of some near-field illumination.
Compared to the magicshine that the E3 replaced, they are not as bright, but I do not feel that I am missing anything. I quite like the fact that I do not need to worry about a battery, and have plenty of light to work with, even if it is somewhat less than the MS.
From what I've seen, the quality of the light is better - it is more uniform, with no discernable hot spots or dead zones, which I did have with the MS.

OH - dynamo is the Shimano Alfine.

I just bought a $40 Sanyo hub, and will be using it with an off-the-shelf $10 4W LED bulb from Dealextreme. I made my own rectifier with smoother cap, it puts out around 300 lumens (give or take 20) and while it's not as bright as my 2-bulb setup, it has proven to give enough light to commute in total darkness for me (I don't go faster than 20MPH, ever, and there's no hills here).

I have 2 months riding time on my Supernova E3 single, I am very satisfied. Plenty of light for the street at less than 20mph, it's always ready. I added the Supernova tail light, it's made to fit on my Topeak rack's DIN standard mount. The Supernova kit is well sorted out, everything works together with no issues. I've got to figure out the wires...Look, Ma, no batteries!

Replying to my own post. :sigh: Narcissistic or what?

Anyhow, got an absolutely brilliant deal from Tree Fort Bikes on a Handmade Pavement Series 2 Alfine dyno-hub and Supernova E3 Pro and slapped them both onto the shaft drive bike. Love the combo. Plenty of bright light and no noticeable drag. Two thumbs up.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that the Supernova set up, so far, looks to be about as bright as my Cygolight Dual-Cross Pro Li-Ion.

The Shimano dynohubs alone are about 530 grams more than an Ultegra/105/Tiagra front hub. Add a ~140gram E3 Pro, and system weight is up to about 670 grams. The first competing system coming to mind is my S-Mini, which is 100 grams with a LockBlock and an 18650 cell, at ~350 lumens. At 1.5 - 2 hours runtime on full power, it's not the endurance king, but the power-to-weight ratio is excellent, and it's not tied to one bike either.

On the original subject, my E3 Pro asymmetrical is OK in a "showcase" environment (full darkness on an abandoned highway in dry conditions), but it's not what I'd pick for "reading" treacherous mashed-up snow, or spotting black domes of ice frozen onto manhole covers. In those situations, more light is helpful, particularly when trying to overcome the "flat" city lighting in order to cast shadows on ruts and stuff. It's also not what I'd pick for spotting debris on the highway at high speeds... just not enough throw without a boost from a battery-powered system.

If Schmidt comes out with an updated Edelux that's up in the 500+ lumen range, I might be tempted to get the dyno wheel out again. Anyone heard anything?

Because randonneuring is all about finishing an event in the prescribed amount of time. If the time limit is 40h and you come in at 40h 01m, you don't get qualifying credit for the ride. It won't count towards an S-R medal, or in a year like this, it could keep you from qualifying for Paris-Brest-Paris.

And at ~45g each for those batteries a springtime 400k (5am start) means that you've got 90 minutes of runtime right from the start line. Assume you're an average rider and you'll finish in 21 hours, so you'll roll across the finish line at 2am the following morning. You need 1 battery for every 90 minutes, so at 6pm you turn on the light for safety. That's 8 more hours of runtime, or 5 more batteries. Include the one from the morning and you're up to over 250g in batteries and once they're used up, they're dead weight. Literally. Landfill fodder if you're using non-chargeables, and wasted weight if you're using rechargeables.
Lighter than a dyno, but at 17 hours into a ride in the middle of the dark, and maybe in the rain, how well are you going to do finding those spare batteries and changing them out? (Make sure you're grabbing a fresh one, not a dead one; and that you've put it in right side out.)
What I'm interested in with that light is what the beam pattern looks like compared to an IQ Cyo. 350L is a decent amount of light, about what my L&M Solo puts out with a 13W halogen bulb, but I know the comparison between my Solo and my Cyo, and it's night & day. The lux rating for the Cyo is much higher because of the focused optics it uses.

The biggest thing to remember with most of my dyno vs. battery argument is that it's based largely on randonneuring, not commuting. So overall system weight comes into play very little, especially when talking about the difference of 300g, like the two systems above (including all your batteries for a 400k in the above conditions.) Let's look at other things that some randos carry that are 300g and mostly go unused... I bring a Park mini chain breaker, a section of 5 chain links, and 2 power links. Easily 200g right there. Steel tire levers instead of nylon. Canvas/leather luggage instead of nylon. Stainless steel fenders instead of plastic. The list goes on and on.
The important qualities of a dyno system for rando are reliability, durability, and mechanical drag. Highly reliable, durable hubs with low drag are the holy grail. That's why people go with things like the SON20R (meant for 20" wheels) in a 700c hoop. It's got lower drag than the SON28, but you have to spin it up almost twice as fast for it to work!

I wouldn't go as far to say that new, high power LED dyno lamps are only good in showcase conditions. An old SON E6/z twin setup? Sure. Those got drowned out by an oncoming moped. The Edelux and IQ Cyo both put out phenominal light intensity, and mounted properly will provide all the contrast that you need for most conditions.
Notice, that's "most", not all conditions. Battery systems do have their place. I wouldn't try doing a 24hr offroad race with a dyno system. I don't like how dyno lights look for most packed snow conditions (you have a choice; mount it high and get insufficient, flat illumination, or mount it low and get great contrast with high intensity that reflects back and blinds you.) For the rain and picking out debris/potholes/etc. on high speed descents I prefer my dyno lights. Mounted at the top height of my wheel they have great long-shadow contrast for road hazards. They're low enough that I can aim them very far into the distance without interfering with oncoming traffic (due to the cutoff optics) and that also makes them excellent in rain and fog because they light the road, not the precipitation.

Agreed, if I were a rando guy, then I certainly wouldn't use a primary light that required a battery swap every 2 hours. But I'd consider using the S-Mini for, say, our Midnight Century. Starts at midnight, dawn at 5AMish. Cranking it down to Medium for the climbs would probably get me through with just one battery swap, or I could simply have two S-Minis and switch over when one's out of power.

Given that it's a fully self-supported ride, and basically a 6-hour time trial for me, I usually take ~15 pounds of Gatorade. The weight is a major factor already, so I'm giving serious consideration to the S-Mini approach. This is what I used the first year, plus a 2-liter Camelbak (it's an on/off-road ride, hence the XC race bike). That year, I ran a Seca 700 in Race Mode (175 lumens low, 700 lumens high), along with a Fenix L2D on the helmet for backup and reading my cue sheet.

My Winter, black Ice bike I use a 6v 10 w battery light , Niterider Sport,
as i go slower the battery will maintain light.

Just raining I have a SON hub dynamo and a e6 schmidt and wired taillight,
there is an e6 secondary.. it goes in series . no off, just on or thru.

good for doubling the light for fast downhills, but you have to be moving at a good clip
to power it.
good for not overrunning the lights on descents , but on the flats the rider strength
to break and maintain 13mph is needed.

So I might shed the E6 secondary I got. I'm just not that fast ..

A) That is a freakin' awesome rig.
B) Please tell me those are really candy bars strapped to the top tube.

I guess describing it as non-competitive is incorrect.

Non-competitive is a correct description, since the only thing you're up against is the clock. It's not a race, and the finishing order of the entrants doesn't matter. Finishing results are posted alphabetically, not by completion time.

Correct, technically, you can have have a single person do a brevet and it count as long as they come in under time.

A 3N80 weighs 485 g. I'm pretty sure Ultregra hubs don't weigh a negative 45 grams. There have been some exciting discoveries in physics recently, but none quite *that* exciting.

Shimano certainly as made some crappy heavy dynohubs, but comparing them to ultegra is hardly fair.

im a DYI type, I built an LED Light to put on my LD/ commute bike, Schmidt hub with 4 cree leds (3 watt Each) and wired in a votage doubler for slow speed and all stuck in a suger shaker housing. very very bright I can light up half a football field .

I glued in narrow optics as my final choice for road riding vs trail . lots of online resources for such a project

the commercial LED lights have gotten much better!! though a Tad pricey, My home made search light cost 40.00 in parts. .

On my single speed I have an Inoled 10 with a B&M tire gen , for around town it works just fine.

"john"

My DIY light: a couple of CREE LEDs powered by the Shimano 3N71. I printed the housing on a 3D printer at my old Institute. It's pretty bright, maybe 300 lumens, but could use better optics since it spills a lot upward (I have one wide angle lens and one tightly focused one).

https://picasaweb.google.com/konens4...04701248748610

Awesome!!!

You might check this out - it attaches on the front wheel and powers a front and rear light via a magnet. It is very reasonably priced and I find it works great:

https://handlebarhelper.com/

It's interesting, an external dynamo. There are no tech specs at the website, no indication of how much power it puts out or what size LED the included lights have. Oh wait, here it is:

https://www.magtenlight.com/

15 Lux. I like it, a better deal than flashlight + blinky for my kids for sure, not so sure about longer-distance commuting...

Wow I checked out MTBRs LED review and they say a minewt 350 puts out 19 lux to their setup:

https://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/2011-bike-lights-shootout/

Haha, yes they are I actually was riding too hard to digest candy bars, so I arrived home with them still on my top tube...



Last year I also took along and posted this midway, for the people following:



My Alfine dynohub weighs 680 grams without a skewer. That's a measured weight, and it is a premium-quality hub like Ultegra, so it's entirely fair to compare them, although Shimano front hubs have very similar weights from Ultegra on down to Tiagra.