Holding up traffic, do the math!
06-20-11 | 04:01 PM
#26
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 785
Likes: 1
From: NW Arkansas
Bikes: Too many to count
His attitude and posture did not seem threatening. Just waiting for his truck to fill up and
walked over to visit. I assumed he was already late and the bike just added a few seconds
to his problem. But he needed some one to blame. I also suspect it was not the first time
he had been late to work.
The truck was an old Dodge 4X4 in cam'o, black net tail gate, big tires, and so on. He was
opening a can of Skoal when came over, maybe just to put the wrapper in the trash can?
Seemed like a likeable Joe.
walked over to visit. I assumed he was already late and the bike just added a few seconds
to his problem. But he needed some one to blame. I also suspect it was not the first time
he had been late to work.
The truck was an old Dodge 4X4 in cam'o, black net tail gate, big tires, and so on. He was
opening a can of Skoal when came over, maybe just to put the wrapper in the trash can?
Seemed like a likeable Joe.
06-20-11 | 06:51 PM
#27
Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
From: Broomfield, CO
Bikes: 1996 Trek 750 Multitrack
06-20-11 | 07:05 PM
#28
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 672
Likes: 12
From: SF Penunsula
Bikes: 1970? Dawes Galaxy (cannibalized), 197? Bob Jackson Frankenbike, 1989 Jamis Diablo
So, to review:
1) The redneck was an idiot, although possibly a likeable one
2) Blaming a cyclist for the fact that he almost got fired due to being late is complete, utter bollocks
3) Neither logic nor math provides a good defense when dealing with folks that blame all the failures in the world on bikes
4) The folks on BikeForums have varying knowledge and desires of Pho
1) The redneck was an idiot, although possibly a likeable one
2) Blaming a cyclist for the fact that he almost got fired due to being late is complete, utter bollocks
3) Neither logic nor math provides a good defense when dealing with folks that blame all the failures in the world on bikes
4) The folks on BikeForums have varying knowledge and desires of Pho
06-20-11 | 11:46 PM
#30
bragi
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,911
Likes: 3
From: seattle, WA
Bikes: LHT
I'm actually surprised "aggravated assault" is a real charge. It's basically a court admission that he had it coming... well, it would be if it wasn't so broad. Somebody threatening me with the suggestion of violence will aggravate me real quick, but you know what? If Russia points their nuclear missiles at the US and starts shouting, the US bombs all of Russia's silos. If you start seriously insinuating that you're going to be waiting outside for me in a dark alley near the bar, I'm going to make sure you're limping before you leave, then I won't have to worry about a surprise attack from your lame ass later.
That's the problem here: you can make someone feel completely and totally unsafe, and legally what can they do? Call the police, get a restraining order... the cops are not my personal guard, and they will not watch over me 24 hours a day for the rest of my life. I'm not the President, I don't get four teams of body guards for all eternity. One day "something will happen," and they can't just go "OH we KNOW it was you, you're in trouble now boy!" and throw my declared adversary in jail for it. Gotta prove it.
But it's not self defense until they make that first move. Even if they actually burn your house down with you and your wife and kids in it, and you get out, and you find the guy running away with the gas can and torch, and chase him down, and rip his heart out of his chest, and you prove he did it in court, you get off for "temporary insanity" because you were "so emotionally disabled at the time that you couldn't identify the difference between right and wrong." If he's not standing there, right then, trying to stab you in the throat at that moment, you're not within your legal rights to do anything about it except cry to the police.
So you get these people, you can mostly ignore them, they won't make the first move. Not for legal reasons, but really because they need to really "get going" before they're into a fight. They're not feeling it, they need you to take the first shot to set off their fuse. You can't make the first move, because that would put you in bad legal standing. Unfortunately, that could draw more passive aggression (destruction or theft of property, annoyance or threatening of your friends and family), or it could set up real aggression and you could find yourself wandering out at night and you meet the same guy and a few of his friends and they decide to make the first move this time around.
It's all very, very complex. It's a social disaster is what it is; and trying to engineer laws for this crap was a huge mistake. Back in the day, a bar fight was "disorderly conduct" and maybe you got billed for "destruction of personal property." Now it's a serious assault charge, and they try to figure out who to blame for starting it, and if you can claim you didn't start it you might get off scott free, so if you can instigate it but not throw the first fist into the mix you can kick some ass and let someone else take the fall for it. So much suck.
Sometimes, you really gotta realize that somebody gets punched in the head, and the best thing for the cops to do is go, "Hey, you guys okay? Listen, behave. I don't want to have to come back here, and if I do you're both spending the night in separate cells to cool off. I suggest you both go home." It'd be cheaper on the court system, and better for everyone involved.
That's the problem here: you can make someone feel completely and totally unsafe, and legally what can they do? Call the police, get a restraining order... the cops are not my personal guard, and they will not watch over me 24 hours a day for the rest of my life. I'm not the President, I don't get four teams of body guards for all eternity. One day "something will happen," and they can't just go "OH we KNOW it was you, you're in trouble now boy!" and throw my declared adversary in jail for it. Gotta prove it.
But it's not self defense until they make that first move. Even if they actually burn your house down with you and your wife and kids in it, and you get out, and you find the guy running away with the gas can and torch, and chase him down, and rip his heart out of his chest, and you prove he did it in court, you get off for "temporary insanity" because you were "so emotionally disabled at the time that you couldn't identify the difference between right and wrong." If he's not standing there, right then, trying to stab you in the throat at that moment, you're not within your legal rights to do anything about it except cry to the police.
So you get these people, you can mostly ignore them, they won't make the first move. Not for legal reasons, but really because they need to really "get going" before they're into a fight. They're not feeling it, they need you to take the first shot to set off their fuse. You can't make the first move, because that would put you in bad legal standing. Unfortunately, that could draw more passive aggression (destruction or theft of property, annoyance or threatening of your friends and family), or it could set up real aggression and you could find yourself wandering out at night and you meet the same guy and a few of his friends and they decide to make the first move this time around.
It's all very, very complex. It's a social disaster is what it is; and trying to engineer laws for this crap was a huge mistake. Back in the day, a bar fight was "disorderly conduct" and maybe you got billed for "destruction of personal property." Now it's a serious assault charge, and they try to figure out who to blame for starting it, and if you can claim you didn't start it you might get off scott free, so if you can instigate it but not throw the first fist into the mix you can kick some ass and let someone else take the fall for it. So much suck.
Sometimes, you really gotta realize that somebody gets punched in the head, and the best thing for the cops to do is go, "Hey, you guys okay? Listen, behave. I don't want to have to come back here, and if I do you're both spending the night in separate cells to cool off. I suggest you both go home." It'd be cheaper on the court system, and better for everyone involved.
06-21-11 | 05:47 AM
#32
No one carries the DogBoy
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,320
Likes: 2
From: Upper Midwest USA
Bikes: Roubaix Expert Di2, Jamis Renegade, Surly Disc Trucker, Cervelo P2, CoMotion Tandem
06-21-11 | 06:17 AM
#33
Hot in China
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 961
Likes: 0
From: China
Bikes: Giant Lava
Rednecks are not often good at math, this is why they often gamble. Gambling is a tax on people who are bad at math.
I like Pho. I think Australia has better Pho than Vietnam, and I would like to justify this position. When I was a youngster most of the market gardens outside the big Australian cities were run by Italians, Greeks and other European immigrants. They grew European vegies very well. Nowadays you can go outside cities like Adelaide and see Vietnamese people, wearing Vietnamese hats, growing European vegies, and Vietnamese vegies. They grow great Vietnamese vegies, better than in Vietnam.
These Vietnamese vegies are turned into Pho, and many other wonderful Vietnamese dishes in Vietnames restaurants across Australia.
I have spent a month in northern Vietnam, and lived in Australia. I think the Pho in Australia is better
Now I live in Sichuan, western China, and the Australian Chinese community doesnt know squat about making Chuan Cai (Sichuan food). Still, I dont care, as I live in Sichuan now, not Australia.
/offtopic
Rednecks suck!!!
z
I like Pho. I think Australia has better Pho than Vietnam, and I would like to justify this position. When I was a youngster most of the market gardens outside the big Australian cities were run by Italians, Greeks and other European immigrants. They grew European vegies very well. Nowadays you can go outside cities like Adelaide and see Vietnamese people, wearing Vietnamese hats, growing European vegies, and Vietnamese vegies. They grow great Vietnamese vegies, better than in Vietnam.
These Vietnamese vegies are turned into Pho, and many other wonderful Vietnamese dishes in Vietnames restaurants across Australia.
I have spent a month in northern Vietnam, and lived in Australia. I think the Pho in Australia is better
Now I live in Sichuan, western China, and the Australian Chinese community doesnt know squat about making Chuan Cai (Sichuan food). Still, I dont care, as I live in Sichuan now, not Australia.
/offtopic
Rednecks suck!!!
z
06-21-11 | 11:43 AM
#34
Seņior Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 13,748
Likes: 10
From: Michigan
Bikes: Windsor Fens, Giant Seek 0 (2014, Alfine 8 + discs)
In the last week, I am absolutely certain that cars have held me up far more than I have held up cars. So clearly cars should not be allowed on the road.
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